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  • Is Joel Test really a good gauging tool?

    - by henry
    I just learned about Joel Test. I have been computer programmer for 22 years, but somehow never heard about it before. I consider my best job so far to be this small investment managing company with 30 employees and only 3 people in IT department. I am no longer with them but I had being working there for 5 years – my longest streak with any given company. To my surprise they scored extremely poor on Joel Test. The only two questions I would answer “yes” are #4: Do you have a bug database? And #9: Do you use the best tools money can buy? Everything else is either “sometimes” or straight “no”. Here is what I liked about the company however: a) Good pay, they bragged about it to my face and I bragged about it to their face, so it was almost like a family environment. b) I always knew big picture. When writing a code to solve particular problem there were no ambiguity about the business nature of that problem. Even though we did not always had written specs we could ask business users a question anytime, often yelling it across the floor. I could even talk to executives any time I felt like doing it: no appointment necessary. c) Immediate feedback. Once we implement a solution and make business users happy they immediately let us know that, we (programmers) become heroes of the moment. d) No red tape. I could always buy any tools I deem necessary, and design solutions the way my professional judgment dictates. e) Flexibility. If I had mid-day dental appointment that is near my house rather than near the office, I would send email to the company: "FYI: I work from home today". As long as one of 3 IT guys was on the floor (to help traders in case their monitors go dark) they did not care where 2 others are. So the question thus becomes how valuable Joel Test is? Why bother with it?

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  • Applicability of the Joel Test to web development companies

    - by dreftymac
    QUESTION: How can you re-write the questions of the Joel test to apply to web developers? 1. Do you use source control? (source control for all aspects of your app, including configuration, database and user-based settings?) 2. Can you make a build in one step? (can you deploy a site from staging to prod in 1 step?) ... 10. Do you have testers? (how do you test AJAX and CSS?) BACKGROUND: This is for people who work in a shop that does some web development but also uses some off-the-shelf tools like Drupal and Wordpress, but doing custom development on top of that. RELATED LINKS: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html What do you think about the Joel Test?

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  • Bare minimum on the Joel Test

    - by Fung
    From the Joel Test, of the 12, which do you think are the absolute must-haves to at least have a decently running software department/company? I realise there is no absolutely right answer. I'm just trying to get opinions of others out there. My own organization only manages a measly 5 of 12. If you check listings on Careers 2.0, most companies don't score a full 12 either but I'm sure they're doing fine. Does SO publish the stats for those anywhere? Or has anyone tried scrapping the results? Would be interesting to know which are practised the most. And whether because they are easier to implement or whether they actually have the most impact. Thanks.

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  • Should the Joel Test be essential for every software company? [closed]

    - by Mahbubur R Aaman
    Joel Test has 12 steps for better code. They are: Do you use source control? Can you make a build in one step? Do you make daily builds? Do you have a bug database? Do you fix bugs before writing new code? Do you have an up-to-date schedule? Do you have a spec? Do programmers have quiet working conditions? Do you use the best tools money can buy? Do you have testers? Do new candidates write code during their interview? Do you do hallway usability testing? Should these steps mandatory for every software companies? While recruiting programmers, then programmers should ask the company, as they follow joel steps?

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  • Is the Joel Test really a good gauging tool?

    - by henry
    I just learned about the Joel Test. I have been computer programmer for 22 years, but somehow I never heard about it before. I consider my best job so far to be this small investment managing company with 30 employees and only three people in the IT department. I am no longer with them, but I had being working there for five years – my longest streak with any given company. To my surprise they scored extremely poor on the Joel Test. The only two questions I would answer “yes” are #4: Do you have a bug database? And #9: Do you use the best tools money can buy? Everything else is either “sometimes” or straight “no”. Here is what I liked about the company however: Good pay. They bragged about it to my face, and I bragged about it to their face, so it was almost like a family environment. I always knew the big picture. When writing code to solve a particular problem there were no ambiguity about the business nature of that problem. Even though we did not always had written specifications we could ask business users a question anytime, often yelling it across the floor. I could even talk to executives any time I felt like doing it: no appointment necessary. Immediate feedback. Once we implement a solution and make business users happy they immediately let us know that, we (programmers) become heroes of the moment. No red tape. I could always buy any tools I deemed necessary, and design solutions the way my professional judgment dictates. Flexibility. If I had mid-day dental appointment that is near my house rather than near the office, I would send email to the company: "FYI: I work from home today". As long as one of three IT guys was on the floor (to help traders in case their monitors go dark) they did not care where two others were. So the question thus becomes: How valuable is the Joel Test? Why bother with it?

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  • Can an agile shop really score 12 on the Joel Test?

    - by Simon
    I really like the Joel test, use it myself, and encourage my staff and interviewees to consider it carefully. However I don't think I can ever score more than 9 because a few points seem to contradict the Agile Manifesto, XP and TDD, which are the bedrocks of my world. Specifically: the questions about schedule, specs, testers and quiet working conditions run counter to what we are trying to create and the values that we have adopted in being genuinely agile. So my question is: is it possible for a true Agile shop to score 12?

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  • Can an agile shop every really score 12 on the Joel Test?

    - by Simon
    I really like the Joel test, use it myself, and encourage my staff and interviewees to consider it carefully. However I don't think I can ever score more than 9 because a few points seem to contradict the Agile Manifesto, XP and TDD, which are the bedrocks of my world. Specifically the questions about schedule, specs, testers and quiet working conditions run counter to what we are trying to create and the values that we have adopted in being genuinely agile. So my question is whether it is possible for a true Agile shop to score 12?

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  • Wanted, Joel Spolsky Clone... slighty used acceptable

    - by SetiSeeker
    Hi All, First of all I have been playing with where to post my question(stackoverflow, meta.stackoverflow or here). So if this is the wrong place, my apologies to all. I love Joel Spolsky's website, Joel on Software. I love the way it mixes developer knowledge, with business knowledge and various other bits of info about, creating, building and surviving dev projects and products. So now for my question, are there any other sites, blogs or people that are similar in content and nature to Joel Spolsky and his site? Thanks.

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  • Was Joel right about XML being slow?

    - by Will
    A long time ago Joel explained how various every-day coding things were slow, and this led to XML as a data store being slow: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000319.html Are those every-day coding things - strcat and malloc - still slow in a std::string and dlmalloc world? What else has changed in modern processors and mainstream frameworks? And is XML still slow? You can't find an RDBMS that doesn't claim some kind of native XML support these days; haven't they got it faster - a single pass to index it for example - yet?

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  • Podcast: Advanced MVVM with Josh Smith

    - by craigshoemaker
    Author, Microsoft MVP and accomplished pianist Josh Smith, Sr. UX Developer at IdentityMine, joins the show to discuss some of Model View ViewModel’s more advanced scenarios. Full Speed: download Fast Version: download Josh shares is experience using MVVM gives some real-world advice on: Using modal dialogs Evils and virtues of code behind in views Use of attached behaviors Undo/redo strategies Working with animations Building a task based architecture for managing communication between View and ViewModel Frameworks in the MVVM space The Book Get first-hand experience implementing the solutions to the challenges discussed in the show by reading Josh’s new book ‘Advanced MVVM’. Resources The following resources are mentioned in the show: Laurent Bugnion's mix talk ‘Understanding the Model-View-ViewModel Pattern Josh Smith’s MVVM Foundation Laurent Bugnion’s MVVM Light framework Rob Eisenberg's Caliburn

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  • Java Spotlight Episode 97: Shaun Smith on JPA and EclipseLink

    - by Roger Brinkley
    Interview with Java Champion Shaun Smith on JPA and EclipseLink. Right-click or Control-click to download this MP3 file. You can also subscribe to the Java Spotlight Podcast Feed to get the latest podcast automatically. If you use iTunes you can open iTunes and subscribe with this link:  Java Spotlight Podcast in iTunes. Show Notes News Project Jigsaw: Late for the train: The Q&A JDK 8 Milestone schedule The Coming M2M Revolution: Critical Issues for End-to-End Software and Systems Development JSR 355 passed the JCP EC Final Approval Ballot on 13 August 2012 Vote for GlassFish t-shirt design GlassFish on Openshift JFokus 2012 Call for Papers is open Who do you want to hear in the 100 JavaSpotlight feature interview Events Sep 3-6, Herbstcampus, Nuremberg, Germany Sep 10-15, IMTS 2012 Conference,  Chicago Sep 12,  The Coming M2M Revolution: Critical Issues for End-to-End Software and Systems Development,  Webinar Sep 30-Oct 4, JavaONE, San Francisco Oct 3-4, Java Embedded @ JavaONE, San Francisco Oct 15-17, JAX London Oct 30-Nov 1, Arm TechCon, Santa Clara Oct 22-23, Freescale Technology Forum - Japan, Tokyo Nov 2-3, JMagreb, Morocco Nov 13-17, Devoxx, Belgium Feature InterviewShaun Smith is a Principal Product Manager for Oracle TopLink and an active member of the Eclipse community. He's Ecosystem Development Lead for the Eclipse Persistence Services Project (EclipseLink) and a committer on the Eclipse EMF Teneo and Dali Java Persistence Tools projects. He’s currently involved with the development of JPA persistence for OSGi and Oracle TopLink Grid, which integrates Oracle Coherence with Oracle TopLink to provide JPA on the grid. Mail Bag What’s Cool James Gosling and GlassFish (youtube video) Every time I see a piece of C code I need to port, my heart dies a little. Then I port it to 1/4 as much Java, and feel better. Tweet by Charles Nutter #JavaFX 2.2 is really looking like a great alternative to Flex. SceneBuilder + NetBeans 7.2 = Flash Builder replacement. Tweet by Danny Kopping

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  • Java Spotlight Episode 77: Donald Smith on the OpenJDK and Java

    - by Roger Brinkley
    Tweet An interview with Donald Smith about Java and OpenJDK. Joining us this week on the Java All Star Developer Panel are Dalibor Topic, Java Free and Open Source Software Ambassador and Arun Gupta, Java EE Guy. Right-click or Control-click to download this MP3 file. You can also subscribe to the Java Spotlight Podcast Feed to get the latest podcast automatically. If you use iTunes you can open iTunes and subscribe with this link:  Java Spotlight Podcast in iTunes. Show Notes News Jersey 2.0 Milestone 2 available Oracle distribution of Eclipse (OEPE) now supports GlassFish 3.1.2 Oracle Linux 6 is now part of the certification matrix for 3.1.2 3rd part of Spring -> Java EE 6 article series published Joe Darcy - Repeating annotations in the works JEP 152: Crypto Operations with Network HSMs JEP 153: Launch JavaFX Applications OpenJDK bug database: Status update OpenJDK Governing Board 2012 Election: Results jtreg update March 2012 Take Two: Comparing JVMs on ARM/Linux The OpenJDK group at Oracle is growing App bundler project now open Events April 4-5, JavaOne Japan, Tokyo, Japan April 11, Cleveland JUG, Cleveland, OH April 12, GreenJUG, Greenville, SC April 17-18, JavaOne Russia, Moscow Russia April 18–20, Devoxx France, Paris, France April 17-20, GIDS, Bangalore April 21, Java Summit, Chennai April 26, Mix-IT, Lyon, France, May 3-4, JavaOne India, Hyderabad, India May 5, Bangalore, Pune, ?? - JUG outreach May 7, OTN Developer Day, Mumbai May 8, OTN Developer Day, Delhi Feature InterviewDonald Smith, MBA, MSc, is Director of Product Management for Oracle. He brings worldwide enterprise software experience, ranging from small "dot-com" through Fortune 500 companies. Donald speaks regularly about Java, open source, community development, business models, business integration and software development politics at conferences and events worldwide including Java One, Oracle World, Sun Tech Days, Evans Developer Relations Conference, OOPSLA, JAOO, Server Side Symposium, Colorado Software Summit and others. Prior to returning to Oracle, Donald was Director of Ecosystem Development for the Eclipse Foundation, an independent not-for-profit foundation supporting the Eclipse open source community. Mail Bag What’s Cool OpenJDK 7 port to Haiku JEP 154: Remove Serialization Goto for the Java Programming Language

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  • Joel Spolsky Retires From Blogging in 3 Days

    - by andyleonard
    No it's not 1 Apr. Joel Spolsky ( Blog - @spolsky ) announced recently he is retiring from blogging 17 Mar 2010 . Reading Joel on Software always makes me think. Mr. Spolsky pioneered a writing style. Along the way he empowered developers, encouraging them to speak up about the manifold misconceptions of our trade. I will miss Mr. Spolsky's writings. I wish him well in all his endeavors. :{| Andy Share this post: email it! | bookmark it! | digg it! | reddit! | kick it! | live it!...(read more)

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  • How Microsoft Lost the API War - by Joel Spolsky

    - by TechTwaddle
    Came across another gem of an article by Joel Spolsky. It's a pretty old article written in June of 2004, has lot of tidbits and I really enjoyed reading it, so much in fact that I read it twice! So hit the link below and give it a read if you haven't already, How Microsoft Lost the API War - Joel Spolsky excerpt, "I first heard about this from one of the developers of the hit game SimCity, who told me that there was a critical bug in his application: it used memory right after freeing it, a major no-no that happened to work OK on DOS but would not work under Windows where memory that is freed is likely to be snatched up by another running application right away. The testers on the Windows team were going through various popular applications, testing them to make sure they worked OK, but SimCity kept crashing. They reported this to the Windows developers, who disassembled SimCity, stepped through it in a debugger, found the bug, and added special code that checked if SimCity was running, and if it did, ran the memory allocator in a special mode in which you could still use memory after freeing it."

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  • "Oracle Fusion Is Worth Your Consideration," States Mark Smith of Ventana Research

    - by Richard Lefebvre
    After attending OOW 2012, Mark Smith of Ventana Research has written a great blog post on Oct 4th, 2012 titled "Oracle Fusion for CRM and HCM Ready with a Mobile Tap." In this blog post, Mark goes on to say: "It was a great opportunity to get close to the Oracle Fusion Applications, which the company presented as proven and ready, with customers using them on-premises and in private and public cloud computing usage methods. In keynotes from executives Larry Ellison, Mark Hurd and Thomas Kurian and application-focused sessions with executives Steve Miranda and Chris Leone, Oracle repeated the message that Fusion Applications are not just for cloud computing and web services but are also accessible through mobile technology called Oracle Fusion Tap that operates natively on the Apple iPad. The company left no confusion about its applications' readiness for cloud and mobile computing, and provided insight into future advancements." Mark also states: " After two days of Oracle and customer sessions, along with a visit to the demonstration stands in the exposition area, it was clear that Oracle has made an important change in its approach to the market and its executive-level commitment to Fusion Applications. I saw more dialogue with partners to complement its applications, and many announcements, including Oracle's on partners in Fusion CRM, who were also visible during presentations and demonstrations." In closing, Mark makes the following proclamation: "Oracle Fusion is worth your consideration whether you are considering a move to cloud computing or still run applications on-premises or use a hybrid approach which provides more choices to customers than just a cloud computing only approach. We are now in a renaissance of business driving what it needs from business applications, and vendors that convince business they can be trusted will be at the center of a new world of cloud, mobile and social computing." This post is really worth a read. You can find the entire post here.

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  • Book Review: Inside Windows Communicat?ion Foundation by Justin Smith

    - by Sam Abraham
    In gearing up for a new major project, I have taken it upon myself to research and review various aspects of our Microsoft stack of choice seeking new creative ways for us to leverage in our upcoming state-of-the-art solution projected to position us ahead of the competition. While I am a big supporter of search engines and online articles as a quick and usually reliable source of information, I have opted in my investigative quest to actually “hit the books”.  I have also made it a habit to provide quick reviews for material I go over hoping this can be of help to someone who may be looking for items others may have had success using for reference. I have started a few months ago by investigating better ways to implementing, profiling and troubleshooting SQL Server 2008. My reference of choice was Itzik Ben-Gan et al’s “Inside Microsoft SQL Server 2008” series. While it has been a month since my last book review, this by no means meant that I have been sitting idle. It has been pretty challenging to balance research with the continuous flow of projects and deadlines all while balancing that with my family duties which, of course, always comes first. In this post, I will be providing a quick review of my latest reading: Inside Windows Communication Foundation by Justin Smith. This book has been on my reading list for a very long time and I am proud to have finally tackled it. Justin’s book presents a great coverage of WCF internals. His simple, concise and well-worded style has simplified the relatively complex internals of WCF and made it comprehensible. Justin opted to organize the book into three parts: an introduction to WCF, coverage of the Channel Layer and a look at WCF internals at the ServiceModel layer. Part I introduced the concepts and made the case behind WCF while covering a simplified version of WCF’s message patterns, endpoints and contracts. In Part II, Justin provided a thorough coverage of the internals of Messages, Channels and Channel Managers. Part III concluded this nice reading with coverage of Bindings, Contracts, Dispatchers and Clients. While one would not likely need to extend WCF at that low level of the API, an understanding of the inner-workings of WCF is a must to avoid pitfalls mainly caused by misinformation or erroneous assumptions. Problems can quickly arise in high-traffic hosted solutions, but most can be easily avoided with some minimal time investment and education. My next goal is to pay a closer look at WCF from the programmer’s API perspective now that I have acquired a better understanding of its inner working.   Many thanks to the O’Reilly User Group Program and its support of our West Palm Beach Developers’ Group.   Stay tuned for more… All the best, --Sam

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  • (and a new ray smith equipment webpage)

    - by raysmithequip
    Originally posted on: http://geekswithblogs.net/raysmithequip/archive/2013/10/15/154351.aspxPlease bear with me, apparently we lost jabry.com to what I am not sure.  I have yet another webpage coming to http://www.raysmithequip.netai.net/ . Right now it is pretty bare, I just spent an hour configuring web matrix 2.0 (3 no likey like vista!!).  I should have the shoppers corner sub page back up intime for black friday though, soo keep your eyes posted.To keep you busy meantime, be sure to check out inmoov, a really cool open source 3d printed diy robot.I chanced upon it from the dangerous prototypes web site some time ago and consider it the one project that will rock the world in the immediate future.inmoov.blogspot.com/ raysmithn3twu

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  • Anti-Joel Test

    - by Vaibhav Garg
    The Joel Test is a measure of how a team performs with regards to the best practices in coding. What questions, given a 'yes' answer, would subtract from the the Joel test score? (Assuming you don't simply negate the current questions on the 'Joel Test', ie: "Do you have no source control?") For example: Does the company insist on being very process heavy?

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  • Trying to reconcile global ip address and Vhosts

    - by puk
    I have been using my local machine as a web server for a while, and I have several websites set up locally on my machine, all with similar Vhost files like the one seen here /etc/apache2/sites-available/john.smith.com: <VirtualHost *:80> RewriteEngine on RewriteOptions Inherit ServerAdmin www-data@john.smith.com ServerName john.smith.com ServerAlias www.john.smith.com DocumentRoot /home/john/smith # Possible values include: debug, info, notice, warn, error, crit, # alert, emerg. LogLevel warn LogFormat "%v %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b" comonvhost CustomLog /var/log/apache2/access.log comonvhost </VirtualHost> then I set up the /etc/hosts file like so for every Vhost: 192.168.1.100 www.john.smith.com john.smith.com 192.168.1.100 www.jane.smith.com jane.smith.com 192.168.1.100 www.joe.smith.com joe.smith.com 192.168.1.100 www.jimbob.smith.com jimbob.smith.com Now I am hosting my friend's website until he gets a permanent domain. I have port forwarding set up to redirect port 80 to my machine, but I don't understand how the global ip fits into all of this. Do I for example use the following web site addresses (assume global ip is 12.34.56.789): 12.34.56.789.john.smith 12.34.56.789.jane.smith 12.34.56.789.joe.smith 12.34.56.789.jimbob.smith

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  • Workflow for academic research projects, one-step builds, and the Joel Test

    - by Steve
    Working alone on academic research sometimes breeds bad habits. With no one else reading my code, I would write a lot of throw-away code, and I would lose track of intermediate results which, weeks or months later, I wish I had retained. My recent attempts to make my personal workflow conform to the Joel Test raised interesting questions. Academic research has inherently different goals than industrial software development, and therefore some aspects of the Joel Test become less valid. Nevertheless, I find these steps to be still valuable for academic research: Do you use source control? Can you make a build in one step? Do you have an up-to-date schedule? Do you have a spec? Of particular use is the one-step build. I find myself more organized now that I have implemented the following "one-step build": In other words, I have a single script, build.py, that accepts Python code, data, and TeX as inputs. The outputs are results, figures, and a paper with all the results filled in. (Yes, I know "build" is probably not accurate in this context, but you get the idea.) By consolidating many small steps into one, I am not backtracking as much as I used to. ...but I'm sure there is still room for improvement. Question: For research projects, which steps of the Joel Test do you still value? Do you have a one-step build? If so, what does yours consist of, i.e., what inputs does it accept, and what output does it generate?

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  • Josh Smith's MVVM Demo App: Add commands to MainWindowViewModel's command list

    - by MAD9
    I have a question concerning Josh Smith's famous demo app on MVVM. I try building a "real" application around it to learn WPF. He creates this CommandsList in the MainWindowViewModel containing 2 Commands (create new and view all customers). This list is readonly (why? any particular reason?). I thougt it would be nice to add and remove some commands, depending on the workspace that is currently selected. Like edit or delete a customer when it has the focus and so on. How would I accomplish this?! Can I just make it a normal list and add commands? Or bind the Commands-View to a commands list of the selected workspace instead of the MainWindow? How? Any other ways? Please share your ideas! Thank you very much!

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  • How would you answer Joel's sample programming questions?

    - by Khorkrak
    I recently interviewed a candidate for a new position here. I wish though that I'd read Joel's Guerrilla Guide to Interviewing prior to that interview - naturally I happened upon it the night afterwards :P http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/GuerrillaInterviewing3.html So I tried answering the easy questions myself - yeah I used the python interpreter to type stuff in and tested the results a bit - I didn't look up any solutions beforehand though and I also thought about how long it took me to come up with answers for each one and what I'd look for the next time I interview someone. I'd let them type stuff into the interpreter and see how did used python's introspection capabilities too to find out things like what's the re module's method for building a regex etc. Here are my answers - these are in python of course - what are yours in your favourite language? Do you see any issues with the answers I came up with - i.e. how could they be improved upon - what did I miss? Joel's example questions: Write a function that determines if a string starts with an upper-case letter A-Z. import re upper_regex = re.compile("^[A-Z]") def starts_with_upper(text): return upper_regex.match(text) is not None Write a function that determines the area of a circle given the radius. from math import pi def area(radius): return pi * radius**2 Add up all the values in an array. sum([1, 2, 3, 4, 5]) Harder Question: Write an example of a recursive function - so how about the classic factorial one: def factorial(num): if num > 1: return num * factorial(num - 1) else: return 1

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  • Passing a parameter using RelayCommand defined in the ViewModel (from Josh Smith example)

    - by eesh
    I would like to pass a parameter defined in the XAML (View) of my application to the ViewModel class by using the RelayCommand. I followed Josh Smith's excellent article on MVVM and have implemented the following. XAML Code <Button Command="{Binding Path=ACommandWithAParameter}" CommandParameter="Orange" HorizontalAlignment="Left" Style="{DynamicResource SimpleButton}" VerticalAlignment="Top" Content="Button"/> ViewModel Code public RelayCommand _aCommandWithAParameter; /// <summary> /// Returns a command with a parameter /// </summary> public RelayCommand ACommandWithAParameter { get { if (_aCommandWithAParameter == null) { _aCommandWithAParameter = new RelayCommand( param => this.CommandWithAParameter("Apple") ); } return _aCommandWithAParameter; } } public void CommandWithAParameter(String aParameter) { String theParameter = aParameter; } #endregion I set a breakpoint in the CommandWithAParameter method and observed that aParameter was set to "Apple", and not "Orange". This seems obvious as the method CommandWithAParameter is being called with the literal String "Apple". However, looking up the execution stack, I can see that "Orange", the CommandParameter I set in the XAML is the parameter value for RelayCommand implemenation of the ICommand Execute interface method. That is the value of parameter in the method below of the execution stack is "Orange", public void Execute(object parameter) { _execute(parameter); } What I am trying to figure out is how to create the RelayCommand ACommandWithAParameter property such that it can call the CommandWithAParameter method with the CommandParameter "Orange" defined in the XAML. Is there a way to do this? Why do I want to do this? Part of "On The Fly Localization" In my particular implementation I want to create a SetLanguage RelayCommand that can be bound to multiple buttons. I would like to pass the two character language identifier ("en", "es", "ja", etc) as the CommandParameter and have that be defined for each "set language" button defined in the XAML. I want to avoid having to create a SetLanguageToXXX command for each language supporting and hard coding the two character language identifier into each RelayCommand in the ViewModel.

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  • Should maven generate jaxb java code or just use java code from source control?

    - by Peter Turner
    We're trying to plan how to mash together a build server for our shiny new java backend. We use a lot of jaxb XSD code generation and I was getting into a heated argument with whoever cared that the build server should delete jaxb created structures that were checked in generate the code from XSD's use code generated from those XSD's Everyone else thought that it made more sense to just use the code they checked in (we check in the code generated from the XSD because Eclipse pretty much forces you to do this as far as I can tell). My only stale argument is in my reading of the Joel test is that making the build in one step means generating from the source code and the source code is not the java source, but the XSD's because if you're messing around with the generated code you're gonna get pinched eventually. So, given that we all agree (you may not agree) we should probably be checking in our generate java files, should we use them to generate our code or should we generate it using the XSD's?

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