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• Problem with connection to MS SQL Server database using SSMS

  - by Charles

  I have a database on line with Godaddy (who uses SQL Server 2005). They provide basic management tools, but tell you that for more advanced tools you can connect directly using SSMS. I followed their instructions to ensure my online database will accept remote connections, and can apparently log in using SSMS with success (after giving my hostname and access data). However: When attempting to expand the "Databases" folder tree, I get the following error: Failed to retrieve data for this request. (Microsoft.SqlServer.Management.Sdk.Sfc) For help, click: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink?ProdName=Microsoft+SQL+Server& LinkId=20476 ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: An exception occurred while executing a Transact-SQL statement or batch. (Microsoft.SqlServer.ConnectionInfo) The server principal "cmitchell" is not able to access the database "3pointdb" under the current security context. (Microsoft SQL Server, Error: 916) For help, click: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink?ProdName=Microsoft+SQL+Server&ProdVer=09.00.4262&EvtSrc=MSSQLServer&EvtID=916&LinkId=20476

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• UNIQUE Constraints in SQL (MS-SQL)

  - by rockbala

  Why are UNIQUE Constraints needed in database ? Can you provide any examples ? Primary Key is UNIQUE by default... Understandable as they are referred in other tables as Foreign keys... relation is needed to connect them for rdbms platform... but why would one refer to other columns as UNIQUE, what is benefit of doing so ?)

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• MS SQL: Primary file group is full

  - by aximili

  I have a very large table in my database and I am starting to get this error Could not allocate a new page for database 'mydatabase' because of insufficient disk space in filegroup 'PRIMARY'. Create the necessary space by dropping objects in the filegroup, adding additional files to the filegroup, or setting autogrowth on for existing files in the filegroup. How do you fix this error? I don't understand the suggestions there.

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• Stored Procedure: Variable passed from PHP alters second half of query string

  - by Stephanie

  Hello everyone, Basically, we have an ASP website right now that I'm converting to PHP. We're still using the MSSQL server for the DB -- it's not moving. In the ASP, now, there's an include file with a giant sql query that's being executed. This include sits on a lot of pages and this is a simple version of what happens. Pages A, B and C all use this include file to return a listing. In ASP, Page A passes through variable A to the include file - page B passes through variable B -- page C passes through variable C, and so on. The include file builds the SQL query like this: sql = "SELECT * from table_one LEFT OUTER JOIN table_two ON table_one.id = table_two.id" then adds (remember, ASP), based on the variable passed through from the parent page, Select Case sType Case "A" sql = sql & "WHERE LOWER(column_a) <> 'no' AND LTRIM(ISNULL(column_b),'') <> '' ORDER BY column_a Case "B" sql = sql & "WHERE LOWER(column_c) <> 'no' ORDER BY lastname, firstname Case "C" sql = sql & "WHERE LOWER(column_f) <> 'no' OR LOWER(column_g) <> 'no' ORDER BY column_g As you notice, every string that's added on as the second part of the sql query is different than the previous; not just one variable can be substituted out, which is what has me stumped. How do I translate this case / switch into the stored procedure, based on the varchar input that I pass to the stored procedure via PHP? This stored procedure will actually handle a query listing for about 20 pages, so it's a hefty one and this is my first major complicated one. I'm getting there, though! I'm also just more used to MySQL, too. Not that they're that different. :P Thank you very much for your help in advance. Stephanie

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• insert Query is not executing, help me in tracking the problem

  - by Parth

  I tried the below query but it didnt executed giving error as : 1064 - You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near ')' at line 1 INSERT INTO `jos_menu` SET params = 'orderby= show_noauth= show_title= link_titles= show_intro= show_section= link_section= show_category= link_category= show_author= show_create_date= show_modify_date= show_item_navigation= show_readmore= show_vote= show_icons= show_pdf_icon= show_print_icon= show_email_icon= show_hits= feed_summary= page_title= show_page_title=1 pageclass_sfx= menu_image=-1 secure=0 ', checked_out_time = '0000-00-00 00:00:00', ordering = '13', componentid = '20', published = '1', id = '152', menutype = 'accmenu', name = 'IPL', alias = 'ipl', link = 'index.php?option=com_content&view=archive', type = 'component') then i used mysql_real_escape_string() on the query containing variable which gives me the query as : INSERT INTO `jos_menu` SET params = \'orderby=\nshow_noauth=\nshow_title=\nlink_titles=\nshow_intro=\nshow_section=\nlink_section=\nshow_category=\nlink_category=\nshow_author=\nshow_create_date=\nshow_modify_date=\nshow_item_navigation=\nshow_readmore=\nshow_vote=\nshow_icons=\nshow_pdf_icon=\nshow_print_icon=\nshow_email_icon=\nshow_hits=\nfeed_summary=\npage_title=\nshow_page_title=1\npageclass_sfx=\nmenu_image=-1\nsecure=0\n\n\', checked_out_time = \'0000-00-00 00:00:00\', ordering = \'13\', componentid = \'20\', published = \'1\', id = \'152\', menutype = \'accmenu\', name = \'IPL\', alias = \'ipl\', link = \'index.php?option=com_content&view=archive\', type = \'component\') And on executing the above query I get an error as : 1064 - You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near '\'orderby=\nshow_noauth=\nshow_title=\nlink_titles=\nshow_intro=\nshow_section=\' at line 1 Can Someone guide me to track the problem in it? Thanks In Advance....

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• Getting table schema from a query

  - by Appu

  As per MSDN, SqlDataReader.GetSchemaTable returns column metadata for the query executed. I am wondering is there a similar method that will give table metadata for the given query? I mean what tables are involved and what aliases it has got. In my application, I get the query and I need to append the where clause programically. Using GetSchemaTable(), I can get the column metadata and the table it belongs to. But even though table has aliases, it still return the real table name. Is there a way to get the aliase name for that table? Following code shows getting the column metadata. const string connectionString = "your_connection_string"; string sql = "select c.id as s,c.firstname from contact as c"; using(SqlConnection connection = new SqlConnection(connectionString)) using(SqlCommand command = new SqlCommand(sql, connection)) { connection.Open(); SqlDataReader reader = command.ExecuteReader(CommandBehavior.KeyInfo); DataTable schema = reader.GetSchemaTable(); foreach (DataRow row in schema.Rows) { foreach (DataColumn column in schema.Columns) { Console.WriteLine(column.ColumnName + " = " + row[column]); } Console.WriteLine("----------------------------------------"); } Console.Read(); } This will give me details of columns correctly. But when I see BaseTableName for column Id, it is giving contact rather than the alias name c. Is there any way to get the table schema and aliases from a query like the above? Any help would be great!

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• Find out which row caused the error

  - by Felipe Fiali

  I have a big fat query that's written dynamically to integrate some data. Basically what it does is query some tables, join some other ones, treat some data, and then insert it into a final table. The problem is that there's too much data, and we can't really trust the sources, because there could be some errored or inconsistent data. For example, I've spent almost an hour looking for an error while developing using a customer's database because somewhere in the middle of my big fat query there was an error converting some varchar to datetime. It turned out to be that they had some sales dating '2009-02-29', an out-of-range date. And yes, I know. Why was that stored as varchar? Well, the source database has 3 columns for dates, 'Month', 'Day' and 'Year'. I have no idea why it's like that, but still, it is. But how the hell would I treat that, if the source is not trustable? I can't HANDLE exceptions, I really need that it comes up to another level with the original message, but I wanted to provide some more info, so that the user could at least try to solve it before calling us. So I thought about displaying to the user the row number, or some ID that would at least give him some idea of what record he'd have to correct. That's also a hard job because there will be times when the integration will run up to 80000 records. And in an 80000 records integration, a single dummy error message: 'The conversion of a varchar data type to a datetime data type resulted in an out-of-range datetime value' means nothing at all. So any idea would be appreciated. Oh I'm using SQL Server 2005 with Service Pack 3.

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• Retrieving multipel rows in MS SQL but distinct filteringen only on one

  - by Nicklas

  I have this: SELECT Product.ProductID, Product.Name, Product.GroupID, Product.GradeID, AVG(tblReview.Grade) AS Grade FROM Product left Join tblReview ON Product.GroupID = tblReview.GroupID WHERE (Product.CategoryID = @CategoryID) GROUP BY Product.ProductID, Product.Name, Product.GroupID, Product.GradeID I would like to return only the rows where Product.Name is unique. If I make a SELECT DISTINCT the ProductID is diffrent on every row so all the rows are unique. Thanks in andvance

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• MS dynamics AX 2009 time zone problem

  - by ssm

  Hi , My questing is related to population of modified date time field in AX during any posting. Suppose I have a server at singapore and i am working in India,and the current time in singapore is 12 p.m and that in India is 9 a.m. Then while I am posting any purchase order packing slip, it is populating the modified date time field with the time of singapore i.e 12 p.m. But I require the Indian time i.e 9 a.m. to be populated there. How is it possible? Regards SSM

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• Error using to_char // to_timestamp

  - by pepersview

  Hello, I have a database in PostgreSQL and I'm developing an application in PHP using this database. The problem is that when I execute the following query I get a nice result in phpPgAdmin but in my PHP application I get an error. The query: SELECT t.t_name, t.t_firstname FROM teachers AS t WHERE t.id_teacher IN (SELECT id_teacher FROM teacher_course AS tcourse JOIN course_timetable AS coursetime ON tcourse.course = coursetime.course AND to_char(to_timestamp('2010-4-12', 'YYYY-MM-DD'),'FMD') = (coursetime.day +1)) AND t.id_teacher NOT IN (SELECT id_teacher FROM teachers_fill WHERE date = '2010-4-12') ORDER BY t.t_name ASC And this is the error in PHP operator does not exist: text = integer (to_timestamp('', 'YYYY-MM-DD'),'FMD') = (courset... ^ HINT: No operator matches the given name and argument type(s). You might need to add explicit type casts. The purpose to solve this error is to use the ORIGINAL query in php with : $date = "2010"."-".$selected_month."-".$selected_day; SELECT t.t_name, t.t_firstname FROM teachers AS t WHERE t.id_teacher IN (SELECT id_teacher FROM teacher_course AS tcourse JOIN course_timetable AS coursetime ON tcourse.course = coursetime.course AND to_char(to_timestamp('$date', 'YYYY-MM-DD'),'FMD') = (coursetime.day +1)) AND t.id_teacher NOT IN (SELECT id_teacher FROM teachers_fill WHERE date = '$date') ORDER BY t.t_name ASC

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• C# : MS Chart : SeriesCollection -> InvalidCastException?

  - by HeinrichStack

  What is the correct way to get the Series of a char in PPT 2010. I tried PowerPoint.SeriesCollection mySeriesCollection = (PowerPoint.SeriesCollection) myChart.SeriesCollection(1); throws the following exception Exception Type: System.InvalidCastException Further, What is the correct call in C# to get the series of a chart ? If I try this way: PowerPoint.Series mySeries = (PowerPoint.Series)myChart.SeriesCollection.Item(1); I get the following compile error : error CS0119: 'Microsoft.Office.Interop.PowerPoint.Chart.SeriesCollection(object)' is a 'method', which is not valid in the given context

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• Drawing graphs in MS Excel somehow got complicated

  - by Ivan

  I want to draw several graphs and combine them into one figure. I will explain the problem in an example. Let's say that I want to draw two graphs with these points: Graph #1 (X and Y are defining a coordinate). X - Y _____ 1 - 5 2 - 5 5 - 7 9 - 10 Graph #2 X - Y _____ 6 - 8 8 - 12 9 - 7 12 - 8 15 - 11 21 - 11 What I do is that I create a chart and click on "Select Data". There I create two series and choose X and Y values. However, this doesn't work since it doesn't allow me to choose different X values for different graphs. Although I choose different for these two series, the second one is chosen for both. This is how it looks like in the end: Do you know how to fix this? I'm using Excel 2008 for Mac.

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• SQL - Multiple join conditions using OR?

  - by Brandi

  I have a query that is using multiple joins. The goal is to say "Out of table A, give me all the customer numbers in which you can match table A's EmailAddress with either email_to or email_from of table B. Ignore nulls, internal emails, etc.". It seems like it would be better to use an or condition in the join than multiple joins since it is the same table. When I try to use AND/OR it does not give the behaviour I expect... AND finishes in a reasonable time, but yields no results (I know that there are matches, so it must be some flaw in my logic) and OR never finishes (I have to kill it). Here is example code to illustrate the question: --my original query SELECT DISTINCT a.CustomerNo FROM A a WITH (NOLOCK) LEFT JOIN B e WITH (NOLOCK) ON a.EmailAddress = e.email_from RIGHT JOIN B f WITH (NOLOCK) ON a.EmailAddress = f.email_to WHERE a.EmailAddress NOT LIKE '%@mydomain.___' AND a.EmailAddress IS NOT NULL AND (e.email_from IS NOT NULL OR f.email_to IS NOT NULL) Here is what I tried, (I am attempting logical equivalence): SELECT DISTINCT a.CustomerNo FROM A a WITH (NOLOCK) LEFT JOIN B e WITH (NOLOCK) ON a.EmailAddress = e.email_from OR a.EmailAddress = e.email_to WHERE a.EmailAddress NOT LIKE '%@mydomain.___' AND a.EmailAddress IS NOT NULL AND (e.email_from IS NOT NULL OR e.email_to IS NOT NULL) So my question is two-fold: Why does having AND in the above query work in a few seconds and OR goes for minutes and never completes? What am I missing to make a logically equivalent statement that has only one join?

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• MS SQL replace sequence of same characters inside Text Field (TSQL only)

  - by zmische

  I have a text column varchar(4000) with text: 'aaabbaaacbaaaccc' and I need to remove all duplicated chars - so only one from sequence left: 'abacbac' It should not be a function, Procedure or CLR - Regex solution. Only true SQL select. Currently I think about using recursive WITH clause with replace 'aa'-'a', 'bb'-'b', 'cc'-'c'. So recursion should cycle until all duplicated sequences of that chars would be replaced. DO you have another solution, perhaps more Permormant one? PS: I searched through this site about different replace examples - they didnt suit to this case.

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• MS-SQL statement to replace/delete sub-strings

  - by StefanE

  Hi, I have a table with 6 columns containing HTML content with some markups in it and now when moving to a new designed site most of this HTML code has to be deleted. More or less all tags except and . Is there a nice way of doing this, identify all tags end delete them within the data? I'm sure there are no < symbols in the test so a regular expression would maybe work? My alternative is to fecth every row, process it and update the database but I'm guessing this is possible to do in SQL directly. Thanks, Stefan

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• Hide labels in pie charts (MS Chart for .Net)

  - by grenade

  I can't seem to find the property that controls visibility of labels in pie charts. I need to turn the labels off as the information is available in the legend. Anyone know what property I can use in code behind? I tried setting the series labels to nothing Chart1.Series[i].Label = string.Empty; but the labels seem to show up anyway.

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• SQL Server - stored procedure suddenly become slow

  - by Barguast

  I have written a stored procedure that, yesterday, typically completed in under a second. Today, it takes about 18 seconds. I ran into the problem yesterday as well, and it seemed to be solved by DROPing and re-CREATEing the stored procedure. Today, that trick doesn't appear to be working. :( Interestingly, if I copy the body of the stored procedure and execute it as a straightforward query it completes quickly. It seems to be the fact that it's a stored procedure that's slowing it down...! Does anyone know what the problem might be? I've searched for answers, but often they recommend running it through Query Analyser, but I don't have have it - I'm using SQL Server 2008 Express for now. The stored procedure is as follows; ALTER PROCEDURE [dbo].[spGetPOIs] @lat1 float, @lon1 float, @lat2 float, @lon2 float, @minLOD tinyint, @maxLOD tinyint, @exact bit AS BEGIN -- Create the query rectangle as a polygon DECLARE @bounds geography; SET @bounds = dbo.fnGetRectangleGeographyFromLatLons(@lat1, @lon1, @lat2, @lon2); -- Perform the selection if (@exact = 0) BEGIN SELECT [ID], [Name], [Type], [Data], [MinLOD], [MaxLOD], [Location].[Lat] AS [Latitude], [Location].[Long] AS [Longitude], [SourceID] FROM [POIs] WHERE NOT ((@maxLOD < [MinLOD]) OR (@minLOD > [MaxLOD])) AND (@bounds.Filter([Location]) = 1) END ELSE BEGIN SELECT [ID], [Name], [Type], [Data], [MinLOD], [MaxLOD], [Location].[Lat] AS [Latitude], [Location].[Long] AS [Longitude], [SourceID] FROM [POIs] WHERE NOT ((@maxLOD < [MinLOD]) OR (@minLOD > [MaxLOD])) AND (@bounds.STIntersects([Location]) = 1) END END The 'POI' table has an index on MinLOD, MaxLOD, and a spatial index on Location.

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• sql query --need some suggestions

  - by benjamin button

  I have a table with list of cycle codes.CYCLE_DEFINITION. each and every cycle_code has 12 months entries in another table(PM1_CYCLE_STATE). Each and every month has a cycle_start_date and a cycle_close_date. i will check with a particular date(lets say sysdate) and check what is the current month of every cycle.additionally i will also get the list of future 3 more months of that particular cycle. the query i have written is as below: SELECT cycd,cm,sd,ed,ld FROM (SELECT pcs.cycle_code CYCD,LTRIM(pcs.cycle_month,'0')+0 CM, pcs.cycle_start_date SD,pcs.cycle_close_date ED,ld.logical_date LD FROM pm1_cycle_state pcs,logical_date ld WHERE ld.logical_date BETWEEN pcs.cycle_start_date AND pcs.cycle_close_date and ld.logical_date_type='B') UNION SELECT cycd,cm,sd,ed,ld FROM (SELECT pcs.cycle_code CYCD,DECODE(LTRIM(pcs.cycle_month,'0')+1,13,1,14,2,15,3,LTRIM(pcs.cycle_month,'0')+1) CM ,pcs.cycle_start_date SD,pcs.cycle_close_date ED,ld.logical_date LD FROM pm1_cycle_state pcs,logical_date ld WHERE ld.logical_date BETWEEN pcs.cycle_start_date AND pcs.cycle_close_date and ld.logical_date_type='B') UNION SELECT cycd,cm,sd,ed,ld FROM (SELECT pcs.cycle_code CYCD,DECODE(LTRIM(pcs.cycle_month,'0')+2,13,1,14,2,15,3,LTRIM(pcs.cycle_month,'0')+2) CM ,pcs.cycle_start_date SD,pcs.cycle_close_date ED,ld.logical_date LD FROM pm1_cycle_state pcs,logical_date ld WHERE ld.logical_date BETWEEN pcs.cycle_start_date AND pcs.cycle_close_date and ld.logical_date_type='B') UNION SELECT cycd,cm,sd,ed,ld FROM (SELECT pcs.cycle_code CYCD,DECODE(LTRIM(pcs.cycle_month,'0')+3,13,1,14,2,15,3,LTRIM(pcs.cycle_month,'0')+3) CM ,pcs.cycle_start_date SD,pcs.cycle_close_date ED,ld.logical_date LD FROM pm1_cycle_state pcs,logical_date ld WHERE ld.logical_date BETWEEN pcs.cycle_start_date AND pcs.cycle_close_date and ld.logical_date_type='B') This query is running perfectly fine. This will result in all the cycle_codes with exactly 4 rows for current month and future 3 months. Now the requirement is if any of the month is missing.how could i show it? for eg: the output of the above query is cycd cm 102 1 102 10 102 11 102 12 103 1 103 10 103 11 103 12 104 1 104 10 104 11 104 12 Now lets say the row with cycd=104 and cm=11 is not present in the table,then the above query will not get the row 104 11. I want to display only those rows. how could i do it?

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• Manage DNS Zone in "slave" Mode with MS Windows 2008 R2

  - by kockiren

  Hello @all following issue, I configure a DNS Zone "location.domain.tld" for my internal Network and it works well, but now I want to manage the domain.tld for my internal Network, but the domain.tld is managed by an external DNS Provider. In location.domain.tld there are all Clients and Servers for internal use only (with local IPs) all these clients resolve the global Mailserver (for example) over his external Address but now i want to catch single Domainnames and resolve it on my own way. But i did not find a way to solve this issue. Any Ideas? Regards Rene

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• MS CRM Source of plug-in event

  - by Chris Jones

  I have written a plug-in and would like to know if it was fired by , the web service api, Import data, web form or outlook client. Is this possible?

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• Converting MS Word Documents to PDF in ASP.NET

  - by glaxaco

  Similar questions have been asked, but nothing exactly like mine, so here goes. We have a collection of Microsoft Word documents on an ASP.NET web server with merge fields whose values are filled in as a result of user form submissions. After the field merge, the server must convert the document to PDF and stream it down to the browser. Our first inclination was to use the Visual Studio Tools for Office API; however, we ran into this warning from Microsoft: Microsoft does not currently recommend, and does not support, Automation of Microsoft Office applications from any unattended, non-interactive client application or component (including ASP, ASP.NET, DCOM, and NT Services), because Office may exhibit unstable behavior and/or deadlock when Office is run in this environment. It looks like the field manipulation can be done using the Open XML SDK, but what's the best way to convert Word 2007 documents to PDF without opening Word? The optimal solution would be low-cost, scalable, have a low memory footprint, be easy to deploy, and have a .NET API.

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• Using [delphi] MadExcept errorhandling with MS Echange Server 2007

  - by Tony

  I currently use madExcept.MailAsSmtpClient to send my bug reports. However a couple of large clients have upgraded to Exchange Server 2007 and we can't get the SMTP support for our app configured (the app runs on individual workstations so the messages aren't all coming from one IP. We can configure an authenticated account in exchange and access it via SMTP from other clients but it rejects madExcept for some reason). So I have two questions 1) has anyone successfully configured that combo ? or 2) is there an example somewhere of how to use the madExcept.UploadViaHTTP option?

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• How to quote and reference MS SQL table and field names

  - by artvolk

  Good day! Despite the fact LINQ2SQL and ADO.NET Entity Framework exists there were situations when I need to revert to plain old DataSet (not typed) and friends. While writing SQL for SqlCommand: Is it needed to quote field and table names with []? Is it good to prefix table names with [dbo] I use to use this syntax: SqlCommand command = new SqlCommand("SELECT [Field1], [Field2] FROM [dbo].[TableName]", connection); May be there is a better way? Thanks in advance!

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• postgresql help with php loop....

  - by KnockKnockWhosThere

  I keep getting an "Notice: Undefined index: did" error with this query, and I'm not understanding why... I'm much more used to mysql, so, maybe the syntax is wrong? This is the php query code: function get_demos() { global $session; $demo = array(); $result = pg_query("SELECT DISTINCT(did,vid,iid,value) FROM dv"); if(pg_num_rows($result) > 0) { while($r = pg_fetch_array($result)) { switch($r['did']) { case 1: $demo['a'][$r['vid']] = $r['value']; break; case 2: $demo['b'][$r['vid']] = $r['value']; break; case 3: $demo['c'][$r['vid']] = $r['value']; break; } } } else { $session->session_setMessage(2); } return $demo; } When I run that query at the pg prompt, I get results: "(1,1,1,"A")" "(1,2,2,"B")" "(1,3,3,"C")" "(1,4,4,"D")" "(1,5,5,"E")" "(1,6,6,"F")" "(1,7,7,"G")" "(1,8,8,"H")" "(1,9,9,"I")" "(1,10,A,"J")" "(1,11,B,"K")" "(1,12,C,"L")" "(1,13,D,"M")" "(2,14,1,"A")" "(2,15,2,"B")" "(2,16,0,"C")" "(3,17,1,"A")" "(3,18,2,"B")" "(3,19,3,"C")" "(3,20,4,"D")" "(3,21,5,"E")" "(3,22,6,"F")" "(3,23,7,"G")"

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• How to store data in mysql, to get the fastest performance?

  - by Oden

  Hey, I'm thinking about it, witch of the following two query types would give me the fastest performance for a user messaging module inside my site: The first one i thought about is a multi table setup, witch has a connection table, and a main table. The connection table holds the connection between accounts, and the messaging table. In this case a query would look like following, to get some data of the author, and the messages he has sent: SELECT m.*, a.username FROM messages AS m LEFT JOIN connection_table ON (message_id = m.id) LEFT JOIN accounts AS a ON (account_id = a.id) WHERE m.id = '32341' Inserting into it is a little bit more "complicated". My other idea, and in my thought the better solution of this problem is that i store the data i would use in a connection table in the same table where is store the data of the mail. Sounds like i would get lots of duplicated entries, but no, because i have a field witch has text type and holds user ids like this: *24*32*249* If I want to query them, i use the mysql LIKE method. Deleting is an other problem, but for this i have one more field where i store who has deleted the post. Sad about that i don't know how to join this. So what would you recommend? Are there other ways?

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