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  • A question every programmer has. Maybe.

    - by zengr
    I have been using Java from the last 2yrs (academics). Now, when I am graduating, I received a job offer from a .com. The job is awesome and it's a backend Java work. I wanted to get involved with Ruby on Rails, looked for alot of jobs, gave few interviews, but didn't make it. So, what should I do now? Should I go ahead with Java and learn/do more with Java, a complete 360degree of the java world - Full stack of Java from backend to frontend? OR Java at workplace and try to improve my Ruby on Rails. I understand, this is a very subjective question and depends on the individual, but what would you have done? Have you ever faced a similar problem? I feel I have wasted some time with Rails, where I could not "conquer" Rails, where as I could have used that time to go more into Java.

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  • What benefits does a game design degree have for a hobby game programmer?

    - by sm4
    I am interested in studying game design, not because I want a job in the games industry, but because I am interested in the subject itself. I read the following questions, but they mostly deal with the effects on your career in game industry. Should I consider a graduate degree in game development? Game Development Degree vs Computer Science Degree First I thought a game development degree could be beneficial. But from the websites of colleges that offer such degrees, I feel like its more about basic programming with examples from games. This college offers game design degrees, for example. My question is, can I benefit from such a degree when I already have a degree in Computer Science, I already know programming, I'm already developing a game and finally, I have this site to help me when I get stuck?

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  • Is what someone publishes on the Internet fair game when considering them for employment as a programmer?

    - by Jon Hopkins
    (Originally posted on Stack Overflow but closed there and more relevant for here) So we first interviewed a guy for a technical role and he was pretty good. Before the second interview we googled him and found his MySpace page which could, to put it mildly, be regarded as inappropriate. Just to be clear there was no doubt that it was his page (name, photos, matching biographical information and so on). The content was entirely personal and in no way related to his professional abilities or attitude. Is it fair to consider this when thinking about whether to offer them a job? In most situations my response would be what goes on in someone's private life is their own doing. However for anyone technical who professes (implicitly or explicitly) to understand the Internet and the possibilities it offers, is posting things in a way which can so obviously be discovered a significant error of judgement? EDIT: Clarification - essentially it was a fairly graphic commentary on porn (but of, shall we say, a non-academic nature). I'm actually more interested in the general concept than the specific incident as it's something we're likely to see more in the future as people put more and more of themselves on-line. My concerns are not primarily about him and how he feels about such things (he's white, straight, male and about the last possible victim of discrimination on the planet in that sense), more how it reflects on the company that a very simple search (basically his name) returns these things and that clients may also do it. We work in a relatively conservative industry.

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  • Detailed C++ book for a programmer already familiar with C and object-oriented programming?

    - by Anto
    I know (to some extent) a few languages, including C, Java and Python. I'm also (somewhat) familiar with Scala and Scheme, plus I can read (but not write) x86 Assembly. Say I want to learn C++, what is a good book which doesn't try to teach me what a class is, teach me inheritance, polymorphism or loosely coupled classes again, nor does try to teach me other basics, just the C++ language (as well as how to write idiomatic C++ code, not e.g. Java with C++ syntax) and its standard library? Note: "Detailed" as used in the title means that it doesn't try to cover C++ in 100 pages, I want to know the details of the language. Of course, mastery comes from practice, but I don't want to learn just a little bit of C++ from the book, but learn it quite thoroughly.

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  • How can a student programmer improve his teamwork skill?

    - by xiao
    I am a student right now. Recently, I am working in a project as a leader with three other students. Due to the lack of experience, our project is progressing slowly and our members are frustrated. They do not feel sense of accomplishment in the project. I am pressured and frustrated, too. But as a team leader, I think I need to push them. But I do not know how to do. Do I help them solve coding problem or just encouragement? But if I pay too much attention on it, it would slow down my own progress. It is a not technical question, but it is very common in software development. I hope veteran programmers would give me some suggestions. Thanks!

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  • Advice for a distracted, unhappy, recently graduated programmer? [closed]

    - by Re-Invent
    I graduated 4 months ago. I had offers from a few good places to work at. At the same time I wanted to stick to building a small software business of my own, still have some ideas with good potential, some half done projects frozen in my github. But due to social pressures, I chose a job, the pay is great, but I am half-passionate about it. A small team of smart folks building useful product, working out contracts across the world. I've started finding it extremely boring. Boring to the extent that I skip 2-3 days a week together not doing work. Neither do I spend that time progressing any of my own projects. Yes, I feel stupid at the way I'm wasting time, but I don't understand exactly why is it happening. It's as if all the excitement has been drained. What can I do about it? Long version: School - I was in third standard. Only students, 6th grade had access to computer labs. I once peeked into the lab from the little door opening. No hard-disks, MS DOS on 5 1/2 inch floppies. I asked a senior student to play some sound in BASIC. He used PLAY to compose a tune. Boy! I was so excited, I was jumping from within. Back home, asked my brother to teach me some programming. We bought a book "MODERN All About GW-BASIC for Schools & Colleges". The book had everything, right from printing, to taking input, file i/o, game programming, machine level support, etc. I was in 6th standard, wrote my first game - a wheel of fortune, rotated the wheel by manipulating 16 color palette's definition. Got internet soon, got hooked to QuickBasic programming community. Made some more games "007 in Danger", "Car Crush 2" for submission to allbasiccode archives. I was extremely excited about all this. My interests now swayed into "hacking" (computer security). Taught myself some perl, found it annoying, learnt PHP and a bit of SQL. Also taught myself Visual Basic one of the winters and wrote a pacman clone with Direct X. By the time I was in 10th standard, I created some evil tools using visual basic, php and mysql and eventually landed myself into an unpaid side-job at a government facility, building evil tools for them. It was a dream come true for crackers of that time. And so was I, still very excited. Things changed soon, last two years of school were not so great as I was balancing preps for college, work at govt. and studies for school at same time. College - College was opposite of all I had wished it to be. I imagined it to be a place where I'd spend my 4 years building something awesome. It was rather an epitome of rote learning, attendance, rules, busy schedules, ban on personal laptops, hardly any hackers surrounding you and shit like that. We had to take permissions to even introduce some cultural/creative activities in our annual schedule. The labs won't be open on weekends because the lab employees had to have their leaves. Yes, a horrible place for someone like me. I still managed to pull out a project with a friend over 2 months. Showed it to people high in the academia hierarchy. They were immensely impressed, we proposed to allow personal computers for students. They made up half-assed reasons and didn't agree. We felt frustrated. And so on, I still managed to teach myself new languages, do new projects of my own, do an intern at the same govt. facility, start a small business for sometime, give a talk at a conference I'm passionate about, win game-dev and hacking contest at most respected colleges, solve good deal of programming contest problems, etc. At the same time I was not content with all these restrictions, great emphasis on rote learning, and sheer wastage of time due to college. I never felt I was overdoing, but now I feel I burnt myself out. During my last days at college, I did an intern at a bigco. While I spent my time building prototypes for certain LBS, the other interns around me, even a good friend, was just skipping time. I thought maybe, in a few weeks he would put in some serious efforts at work assigned to him, but all he did was to find creative ways to skip work, hide his face from manager, engage people in talks if they try to question his progress, etc. I tried a few time to get him on track, but it seems all he wanted was to "not to work hard at all and still reap the fruits". I don't know how others take such people, but I find their vicinity very very poisonous to one's own motivation and productivity. Over that, the place where I come from, HRs don't give much value to what have you done past 4 years. So towards the end of out intern, we all were offered work at the bigco, but the slacker, even after not writing more than 200 lines of code was made a much better offer. I felt enraged instantly - "Is this how the corp world treats someone who does fruitful, if not extra-ordinary work form them for past 6 months?". Yes, I did try to negotiate and debate. The bigcos seem blind due to departmentalization of responsibilities and many layers of management. I decided not to be in touch with any characters of that depressing play. Probably the busy time I had at college, ignoring friends, ignoring fun and squeezing every bit of free time for myself is also responsible. Probably this is what has drained all my willingness to work for anyone. I find my day job boring, at the same time I with to maintain it for financial reasons. I feel a bit burnt out, unsatisfied and at the same time an urge to quit working for someone else and start finishing my frozen side-projects (which may be profitable). Though I haven't got much to support myself with food, office, internet bills, etc in savings. I still have my day job, but I don't find it very interesting, even though the pay is higher than the slacker, I don't find money to be a great motivator here. I keep comparing myself to my past version. I wonder how to get rid of this and reboot myself back to the way I was in school days - excited about it, tinkering, building, learning new things daily, and NOT BORED?

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  • How can a solo programmer become a good team player?

    - by Nick
    I've been programming (obsessively) since I was 12. I am fairly knowledgeable across the spectrum of languages out there, from assembly, to C++, to Javascript, to Haskell, Lisp, and Qi. But all of my projects have been by myself. I got my degree in chemical engineering, not CS or computer engineering, but for the first time this fall I'll be working on a large programming project with other people, and I have no clue how to prepare. I've been using Windows all of my life, but this project is going to be very unix-y, so I purchased a Mac recently in the hopes of familiarizing myself with the environment. I was fortunate to participate in a hackathon with some friends this past year -- both CS majors -- and excitingly enough, we won. But I realized as I worked with them that their workflow was very different from mine. They used Git for version control. I had never used it at the time, but I've since learned all that I can about it. They also used a lot of frameworks and libraries. I had to learn what Rails was pretty much overnight for the hackathon (on the other hand, they didn't know what lexical scoping or closures were). All of our code worked well, but they didn't understand mine, and I didn't understand theirs. I hear references to things that real programmers do on a daily basis -- unit testing, code reviews, but I only have the vaguest sense of what these are. I normally don't have many bugs in my little projects, so I have never needed a bug tracking system or tests for them. And the last thing is that it takes me a long time to understand other people's code. Variable naming conventions (that vary with each new language) are difficult (__mzkwpSomRidicAbbrev), and I find the loose coupling difficult. That's not to say I don't loosely couple things -- I think I'm quite good at it for my own work, but when I download something like the Linux kernel or the Chromium source code to look at it, I spend hours trying to figure out how all of these oddly named directories and files connect. It's a programming sin to reinvent the wheel, but I often find it's just quicker to write up the functionality myself than to spend hours dissecting some library. Obviously, people who do this for a living don't have these problems, and I'll need to get to that point myself. Question: What are some steps that I can take to begin "integrating" with everyone else? Thanks!

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  • Is these company terms good for a programmer or should I move?

    - by o_O
    Here are some of the terms and conditions set forward by my employer. Does these make sense for a job like programming? No freelancing in any way even in your free time outside company work hours (may be okay. May be they wanted their employees to be fully concentrating on their full time job. Also they don't want their employees to do similar work for a competing client. Completely rational in that sense). - So sort of agreed. Any thing you develop like ideas, design, code etc while I'm employed there, makes them the owner of that. Seriously? Don't you think that its bad (for me)? If I'm to develop something in my free time (by cutting down sleep and hard working), outside the company time and resource, is that claim rational? I heard that Steve Wozniak had such a contract while he was working at HP. But that sort of hardware design and also those companies pay well, when compared to the peanuts I get. No other kind of works allowed. Means no open source stuffs. Fully dedicated to being a puppet for the employer, though the working environment is sort of okay. According to my assessment this place would score a 10/12 in Joel's test. So are these terms okay especially considering the fact that I'm underpaid with peanuts?

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  • What are the basic skills a beginner JavaScript programmer should have?

    - by Sanford
    In NYC, we are working on creating a collaborative community programming environment and trying to segment out software engineers into differing buckets. At present, we are trying to define: Beginners Intermediates Advanced Experts (and/or Masters) Similar to an apprenticeship, you would need to demonstrate specific skills to achieve different levels. Right now, we have identified beginner programming skills as: Object - method, attributes, inheritance Variable - math, string, array, boolean - all are objects Basic arithmetic functions - precedence of functions String manipulation Looping - flow control Conditionals - boolean algebra This is a first attempt, and it is a challenge since we know the natural tension between programming and software engineering. How would you create such a skills-based ranking for JavaScript in this manner? For example, what would be the beginner JavaScript skills that you would need to have to advance to the intermediate training? And so on.

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  • Which web site gives the most accurate indication of a programmer's capabilities?

    - by Jerry Coffin
    If you were hiring programmers, and could choose between one of (say) the top 100 coders on topcoder.com, or one of the top 100 on stackoverflow.com, which would you choose? At least to me, it would appear that topcoder.com gives a more objective evaluation of pure ability to solve problems and write code. At the same time, despite obvious technical capabilities, this person may lack any hint of social skills -- he may be purely a "lone coder", with little or no ability to help/work with others, may lack mentoring ability to help transfer his technical skills to others, etc. On the other hand, stackoverflow.com would at least appear to give a much better indication of peers' opinion of the coder in question, and the degree to which his presence and useful and helpful to others on the "team". At the same time, the scoring system is such that somebody who just throws up a lot of mediocre (or even poor answers) will almost inevitably accumulate a positive total of "reputation" points -- a single up-vote (perhaps just out of courtesy) will counteract the effects of no fewer than 5 down-votes, and others are discouraged (to some degree) from down-voting because they have to sacrifice their own reputation points to do so. At the same time, somebody who makes little or no technical contribution seems unlikely to accumulate a reputation that lands them (even close to) the top of the heap, so to speak. So, which provides a more useful indication of the degree to which this particular coder is likely to be useful to your organization? If you could choose between them, which set of coders would you rather have working on your team?

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  • From Oracle PL/SQL Developer to Java programmer - Is it a good decision? [on hold]

    - by user3554231
    I will explain my question in simple words. I have little over 1 year experience in Oracle. My dream is to be "called" as a 'Developer', be it database developer if not software developer. But right now I don't develop anything neither I am in good touch with PL/SQL and other Oracle Utilites like SQL*LOADER, shell scripting and stuff like that as I am only a System Analyst where I analyze and configure database using SQL queries. To be honest, I know very basic PL/SQL and good knowledge in SQL but that won't ever give me a chance to be a developer as I am lagging way behind the "real" developers knowledge. Now I feel I should learn JAVA as well so that I can cope up with the competition. But I am too scared to learn new things as it will take much more time which will indirectly increase my useless work experince(just analyzing) which values nothing in todays market. Moreover that, I am too lazy to work hard i.e. to study and not to work during office hours. To sum it up I am lazy and confused and scared but I want to learn things as well but don't know if I am intelligent enough to learn whole of PL/SQL or to master any other language. Is there any other way from which I can feel confident? Actually I even feel sometimes that after 2-3 years if I still don't achieve my goal, I won't ever be able to reach my destination. I just want to live my dream of being a developer. Give me some tips and hopes but not false hopes.

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  • Is it normal for programmer to work on multiple projects simultaneously.

    - by gasan
    On a current job I have 2 projects to work on. First is very huge system and the second one is smaller but it also big (first project is being developed for 12 years, second for 4 years). At first I was working only on first project and was trying to get used to it. Then I was moved to second project and tried there, so my knowledge about first project became shady. Now I have to work on both projects at the same time. It's very hard for me because despite they both use java, they use different frameworks and the amount of code and business-logic to understand is very big so I really can't hold both that projects in my head. Is it normal and I should get used to it, although my expertise became very squashy, what won't happen if I would work only on a single project? Or should I raise a concern or maybe change employer?

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  • Is learning how to use C (or C++) a requirement in order to be a good (excellent) programmer?

    - by blueberryfields
    When I first started to learn how to program, real programmers could write assembly in their sleep. Any serious schooling in computer science would include a hefty bit of training and practice in programming using assembly. That has since changed, to the point where I see Computer Science degrees with assembly, if included at all, is relegated to one assignment, and one chapter, for a total of two weeks' work out of 4 years' schooling. C/C++ programming seems to have followed a similar path. I'm no longer surprised to interview university graduates who have not spent more than two weeks programming in C++, and have only read of C in a book somewhere. While the most serious CS degrees still seem to include significant time learning and using one or both of the languages, the trend is clearly towards less enforced C/C++ in school. It's clearly possible to make a career producing good work without ever reading or writing a single line of C or C++ code. Given all of that, is learning the two languages worth the effort? Are they at all required to excel? (beyond the obvious, non-language specific advice, such as "a good selection of languages is probably important for a comprehensive education", and "it's probably a good idea to keep trying out and learning new languages throughout a programmers' career, just to stretch the gray cells")

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  • Are these company terms good for a programmer or should I move?

    - by o_O
    Here are some of the terms and conditions set forward by my employer. Does these make sense for a job like programming? No freelancing in any way even in your free time outside company work hours (may be okay. May be they wanted their employees to be fully concentrating on their full time job. Also they don't want their employees to do similar work for a competing client. Completely rational in that sense). - So sort of agreed. Any thing you develop like ideas, design, code etc while I'm employed there, makes them the owner of that. Seriously? Don't you think that its bad (for me)? If I'm to develop something in my free time (by cutting down sleep and hard working), outside the company time and resource, is that claim rational? I heard that Steve Wozniak had such a contract while he was working at HP. But that sort of hardware design and also those companies pay well, when compared to the peanuts I get. No other kind of works allowed. Means no open source stuffs. Fully dedicated to being a puppet for the employer, though the working environment is sort of okay. According to my assessment this place would score a 10/12 in Joel's test. So are these terms okay especially considering the fact that I'm underpaid with peanuts?

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  • Is it wise for a programmer to move into management?

    - by Desolate Planet
    Many times, a developer has suggested that I become a team leader because I'm motivated, but during my career in the IT industry, I've seen so many people who are great at programming, move into management and they are miserable. I've also seen many managers return to programming stating "I'm a technical person, I like technical problems". If this is such a common thing, why do developers feel compelled to leave the technical domain and move into management? Sure you'll have more money and more control, but if you don't enjoy your work and take your problems out on your tream. Secondly, I've been asked in developer interviews, "Would you consider leading a team?" and I'm always tempted to cite the Peter Principle based on what I've seen. I am interested in furthering myself, but not in the way the company may want i.e "Vice President of department blah". To be honest, I've seen this more often in the corporate world than in small development houses and it's always put me off ever going back to a corporate environment. I just feel that this is becoming more and more the norm and it's impacting team morale and degrading the quality of the work. Question: Based on what I've said, Is it a smart move for a technical person to move into management?

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  • What are the basic skills a BEGINNING JavaScript programmer should have?

    - by Sanford
    In NYC, we are working on creating a collaborative community programming environment and trying to segment out software engineers into differing buckets. At present, we are trying to define: Beginners Intermediates Advanced Experts (and/or Masters) Similar to an apprenticeship, you would need to demonstrate specific skills to achieve different levels. Right now, we have identified Beginner programming skills as: Object - method, attributes, inheritance Variable - math, string, array, boolean - all are objects Basic arithmetic functions - precedence of functions String manipulation Looping - flow control Conditionals - boolean algebra This is a first attempt, and it is a challenge since we know the natural tension between programming and software engineering. How would you create such a skills-based ranking for JavaScript in this manner? For example, what would be the Beginner Javascript skills that you would need to have to advance to the Intermediate Training? And so on.

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  • Experienced programmer, beginner at web design, tools for effective maintainable web design? [closed]

    - by Clinton
    I do quite a bit of programming in my work, which I'm comfortable with, but recently I've being trying to do some web-design for non-work related reasons. I've got a Drupal site up and running, and added some content. But they all look fairly basic. Header with some content. It doesn't look particularly polished. Anyway, as an example, what I wanted to do was make some "bubbles", each with some text in them. From a programmers point of view, say: bubble(question_text, answer_text) might expand to a box with some border, with "Question: " + question_text then "Answer: " + answer_text. Of course I'd have lots of these bubbles, but I'd like to change their look and feel in one place, so simple HTML would be a maintainable nightmare. I also want to lay them out on the screen in some fashion. I was thinking a mixture of javascript and CSS, or possibly use PHP which Drupal uses. On the other hand, I fear I might be taking a 1990s approach to this, and that there's actually tools available now that make this process a lot easier. I'm just wondering what the best approach to this sort of task is? Should I be using offline web design software and copying the code to Drupal, and if so, any recommendations? I'm sorry if my question is a bit vague, because I'm not really sure what question I should be asking. I'd appreciate if you answer and comment, and I'll try my best to be more specific as I understand more.

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  • How important is it for a programmer to know how to implement a QuickSort/MergeSort algorithm from memory?

    - by John Smith
    I was reviewing my notes and stumbled across the implementation of different sorting algorithms. As I attempted to make sense of the implementation of QuickSort and MergeSort, it occurred to me that although I do programming for a living and consider myself decent at what I do, I have neither the photographic memory nor the sheer brainpower to implement those algorithms without relying on my notes. All I remembered is that some of those algorithms are stable and some are not. Some take O(nlog(n)) or O(n^2) time to complete. Some use more memory than others... I'd feel like I don't deserve this kind of job if it weren't because my position doesn't require that I use any sorting algorithm other than those found in standard APIs. I mean, how many of you have a programming position where it actually is essential that you can remember or come up with this kind of stuff on your own?

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  • Do you know any studies on relation of productivity of a programmer and the workstation used?

    - by Tomasz Blachowicz
    I was wondering if there are any studies (formal or not-so-formal) that show correlation between a developer productivity and the workstation used to develop software. It is often heard as argument that the high spec workstations increase the productivity (or the low spec machines impact productivity to the greater extent). To me it sound reasonable, however I'd like to verify the statement with some studies if such exists. Can you help me with that?

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  • Do you know any studies on relation of productivity of a programmer and the workstation used?

    - by Tomasz Blachowicz
    I was wondering if there are any studies (formal or not-so-formal) that show correlation between a developer productivity and the workstation used to develop software. It is often heard as argument that the high spec workstations increase the productivity (or the low spec machines impact productivity to the greater extent). To me it sound reasonable, however I'd like to verify the statement with some studies if such exists. Can you help me with that?

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  • When does a programmer know when a new job is not right?

    - by Mysterion
    I believe that the interview process is a selling of both parties - what can the employee offer the employer and vice versa. Assuming an individual has been careful in selecting their new employer (via thorough questioning in the interview process), however when they arrive at the job they find the employer has not been honest about certain aspects of the job. Examples of this dishonesty could include: The employee making it clear that technical excellence is an important factor, which is promised by the employer, but is not fully delivered or a good technical structure does not exist. The employee states they want to work on well architected and short (lets say less than 1 yr) long projects, yet when they start they find they are placed on a poorly architected older project. The employee being told of a pair programming environment to get him up to speed on the project, but being left to his own devices/questioning on arrival. The employee is promised a culture that encourages innovation and technical excellence but finds that this is not the case (eg. using technology for knowledge retention is laughed at). I know that a lot of famous developers feel that you make the place you work at. Is it realistic for a new employee with limited experience in the industry (say less than 5 years) to be able to join the company and change attitudes or even challenge the employer on the perceived dishonesty? Should they stay in this job or cut their losses?

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  • What are the most necessary non-language specific things a programmer needs to know?

    - by Josh
    I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Right now I work at a little web company, am almost done with school, and have written an iPhone app, but I'm not sure what else I need to focus my learning energies on. I've decided I want to do software programming, so I've been actively reading everything I can get my hands on that deals with Objective-C / C++ (Cocoa, OpenGL, etc). But those are not the things I'm talking about. I know I need to "master" a language or two. What I'm talking about are the other "things". Things such as learning and using source control, design patterns, etc. What thing (or things, just one per response), would you say I should concurrently be focusing on? You can consider in your answer that I'm wanting to do the aforementioned career path, but you don't have to. I just want a nice list of things to research, and actually use in my career. Also, can someone help me with tagging this? I'm not sure what exactly would be a good tag for such a question.

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  • How can a programmer refine their skills in non-visual ways?

    - by Martin Josefsson
    I feel like when I am not writing, I am reading. When I come home from my programming job I write and read software and about software. The problem is though, both reading and writing requires my eyes to be focused. That doesn't work when I'm biking, cooking shopping for groceries. Sometime I use text-to-speech programs to listen to blogs, but I feel like there could be more. What ways can a software developer learn more without requiring eye focus? How to blind coders learn the craft?

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  • Can you be a programmer and Business manager at the same time?

    - by the_knight5000
    Hello all, I think I'm struggled in some situation! We are a new start-up with 5 employees (2 Programmers). I'm the Technical Manager and that was so fine! Now I can see the fingers point to me to take the control of everything, as I've the big vision of what our organization do and play the role of CEO or General Manager! I want to, but I've no idea if it would be risky to our organization to make such a decision? How would managerial interrupts affect the technical productivity? Any tips or previous experience about such situation would help :) Thanks in advance!

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  • What almost unknown programming language of 21st century a programmer should be introduced to?

    - by bigown
    Which languages almost nobody talks about but has some interesting features or concepts? It must satisfy the following 2 criteria: It must have been created in 2000 or later. Ex.: REBOL, Squeak, Oberon, etc. are out. It can't have some fame among programmers. Ex.: Groovy, C#, Scala, Go, Clojure, D, etc are out. The language doesn't need be good or totally implemented. License or platform doesn't matter. The language needs to be new and interesting. I posted a good example of language I wanna know. If you wish TIOBE can be used as reference to measure "fame", but don't cling on it.

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