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  • Server 2003 and XP Client; Why are HTTP connections being silently dropped.

    - by Asa Yeamans
    On my network, my edge-router, a windows 2003 r2 server router with all the latest updates, will drop packets, but only under specific circumstances. I have troubleshot and isolated it down to the most simple configuration i can. There is NO NAT involved. Only fully-public IP addresses. No Firewalls are running either, all ahve been disabled. no packet filters on any interfaces anywhere either. I have a single Windows XP virtual machine and my edge-router(the windows 2003 r2 server, and also a virtual machine) running on a windows 2008 x64 r2 system (running virtual server 2005 as i dont have Intel-VT compatible chip yet). The edge router can access any external http site just fine, no issues. However the windows XP machine is only able to access certain sites. These work: www.google.com www.txstate.edu www.workintexas.com www.thedailywtf.com . These Dont: www.yahoo.com www.utexas.edu en.wikipedia.org slashdot.org www.bing.com. I have removed all possibility of DNS issues by connecting with net-cat from the XP box and sending GET /\r\nHost: \r\n\r\n and that connection replicates the issue as well. The network setup: My statically assigned IP block: x.x.x.168/29 DSL Modem -----PPPoE Connection---- x.x.x.169[EdgeRouter] [EdgeRouter]x.x.x.170 -----Virtual Ethernet----- x.x.x.174 [Test2] Test2's Default gateway is x.x.x.170 and test2 can ping any and every valid, accessible, public IP address with no packet loss what-so-ever. If i connect directly over PPPoE from test2 (the XP box) everything works just fine... Im at my wits end, i have NO IDEA whats causing this.

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  • Slowdown upon router/modem setup change

    - by Ollie Saunders
    I’ve been using a Belkin FSD7632-4 modem router to connect to my TalkTalk provided ADSL internet connection for some time and been pretty happy with it. Recently, however, the connection has been failing and I decided to get a ASUS RT-N16 instead, which is also a much more capable router generally. The ASUS RT-N16 doesn’t come with a modem built-in so I purchased as Zoom modem as well. I’ve set them both up and am using them to post this message. But I’m a bit miffed to find that I get a significantly and consistently slower downstream rate from the new configuration than with the old Belkin. Belkin modem router: downstream: 3.45 mbps upstream: 0.73 mbps ASUS router + Zoom modem: downstream: 2.71 mbps upstream: 0.66 mbps Any ideas why this is? The really weird thing about this is that the Zoom supports ADSL2 and ADSL2+ but I don’t think the old Belkin does. At first I thought it might be due to the Zoom modem being limited to PPPoE instead of PPPoA, which my ISP supports, but then I tried using PPPoE with the Belkin and that still gave a high speed. I’m using VC-Mux encapsulation with both. VPI of 0 and VCI of 38. I pulled this data off the Zoom: Mode: ADSL2 Line Coding: Trellis On Status: No Defect Link Power State: L0 Downstream Upstream SNR Margin (dB): 12.3 11.8 Attenuation (dB): 43.0 24.9 Output Power (dBm): 12.9 0.0 Attainable Rate (Kbps): 3936 844 Rate (Kbps): 3194 840 MSGc (number of bytes in overhead channel message): 59 10 B (number of bytes in Mux Data Frame): 99 14 M (number of Mux Data Frames in FEC Data Frame): 2 16 T (Mux Data Frames over sync bytes): 1 8 R (number of check bytes in FEC Data Frame): 8 8 S (ratio of FEC over PMD Data Frame length): 1.9833 9.0594 L (number of bits in PMD Data Frame): 839 219 D (interleaver depth): 32 2 Delay (msec): 15 4 Super Frames: 15808 14078 Super Frame Errors: 0 4294967232 RS Words: 513778 111753 RS Correctable Errors: 126 4294967238 RS Uncorrectable Errors: 0 N/A HEC Errors: 0 4294967279 OCD Errors: 0 0 LCD Errors: 0 0 Total Cells: 1920175 237597 Data Cells: 205993 392 Bit Errors: 0 0 Total ES: 0 0 Total SES: 0 0 Total UAS: 34 0

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  • A router that supports connecting with 2 different wifi networks

    - by Allan Deamon
    I Have the following setup in one place: We have a small local ISP through wireless. I have a external parabolic antenna, connected to a external usb wifi radio, connected through USB to a desktop old PC. The pc connects do the ISP wiki network, then do a Dial Up (PPPoE) connection through the this wifi setup. This will expand with others mobiles devices to be used. When I need, I take my home wireless router and connect though Ethernet in the PC, which is shares the internet. The problem is that the PC must be always ON and working. I would like to buy a wireless router which could be an AP to the mobile devices, notebooks, etc, as also could connect to the ISP Wifi/PPPoE network. So, this device must: Have one radio with detachable antenna to connect to the external antenna. It must connect as client to a network and then dial up the PPP Have another radio serving as AP (infrastructure) to the local place This can't be very expensive. I found a candidate: ( http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/?categoryid=1682&model=TL-WR2543ND ) It have 3 deatachable antennas, working with dual band. Officially, his firmware doesn't support it. My supposition: If internally there is 3 or 2 distinct wlan ports (like wlan0, wlan1), and there is support, i could use a OpenWRT, DD-WRT or Tomato to make this works. It also have 1 USB port, which I cold use to connect my actual USB Wifi card on it instead to the old PC. Another alternative, is a router that can do this out of box, with the original firmware. But I don't think this is a easy thing to find.

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  • Internet setup for my office

    - by prakash
    We have two internet connections to our office and our current setup is like this.. The internet connections require pppoe log in so i take each cable and plug it into a wifi router and configure the router to log in to the pppoe and then plug in a cable from the router to a switch and distribute the internet throughout my office. The problem with this setup is it is really hard to monitor and im not able to monitor who is hogging internet usage and what he or she is actually using it for. apart from this we also have a nas setup which is routed through another switch . Could someone please throw a little light on how i can restructure this setup for easy monitoring and better transparency... ? each wan router is connected to a different switch and is distributed to users accordingly.. we have around 40 users in the office.. we want to setup a single linux box to which i want to connect the two wan connections and from there distribute it to all our users.... im looking for a solution where we do not have to invest more that buying a single pc and a couple of nics

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  • Router reconfigures PC's and they can no longer access the internet via hardwired connection to DSL Modem

    - by zchads
    Router reconfigures PC's and they can no longer access the internet via hardwired connection to DSL Modem. Hardware Information: Buffalo Wireless Router/access point, Model: WZR-HP-G300NH-AP DSL Modem: Generic (actually not sure of manufacture). Service Provider: TOT (Thailand) Laptop-1: Windows XP and Belkin PCMIA Network Card Laptop-2: Windows XP unknown network card & Wifi Laptop-3: Windows 7 unknown network card & Wifi Outline of Problem/actions taken: After a recent power failure the router and laptop-1 connected to router were no longer able to access the internet. Actions taken to try and recover internet access: Using Laptop-1 tried to configure Router with PPPoe settings using software from Router Manufacture. During the installation process a Timeout error was experienced, unable to connect to WAN. Used Internet Explorer to communicate directly with Router using IP address. Changed settings to use PPPoe settings given by ISP. Router was not able to communicate with Internet. Repeated steps 1-4 again with no success. Reset Router and DSL modem. Repeated steps 1-4 again still no success. Tried connecting Laptop-1 directly to DSL to gain access to internet to research problem. No Network connection with DSL could be established…connection would be established for a second and then be lost and didn’t appear long enough to actually connect to DSL. Replugged LAN back into Router and connection was regained with laptop-1. Replugged Laptop-1 directly into DSL and again unable to establish network connection. Uninstalled network card and all of its drivers on Laptop-1. Reinstalled network card and drivers and tried connecting directly to DSL. Still unable to make network connection. Plugged DSL into Laptop-3 and Internet connection was established. Being Laptop-3 does not have a CD-Rom, Laptop-2 was tried to connect to the router. With Laptop-2 steps 1-7 ended up being repeated without success. Tried plugging Laptop-2 directly into DSL and again no network connection could be established. Using Laptop-3 with a direct connection to DSL downloaded latest Router FW. Installed router FW using Laptop-1. Tired the installation process again without success. Being desperate reinstalled OS on Laptop-1 still not success. Tried using “ipconfig” with router to see what was going on without success. With laptop-1 connected to DSL went through the “ipconfig /…” inputs to see if anything made a difference. Being the network card was not able to make a connection this provide very little information “media disconnected”. So now I have a router and two laptops which are unable to connect to the internet and sure could use some advice/help.

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  • Is it safe to leave a broadband router running 24/7?

    - by Anirvan
    My father-in-law's ISP warned him in the strictest possible terms to physically turn off his rented Nokia Siemens C2110 PPPoE broadband router when not in use. Everyone I know leaves their broadband router on all the time, and I've never heard of any negative impacts. Is leaving a consumer broadband router running 24/7 really problematic? Is the ISP in question being ridiculously paranoid?

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  • Using BIND as a Personal DNS Server on Windows XP

    - by Sam
    Hello, My ISP's DNS server is very crappy and I've been trying out various alternatives to it. I came across Treewalk ( http://ntcanuck.com/ ) and BIND, and decided to use Treewalk as it seemed easier. But it's performance hasn't been satisfactory. Can someone please guide me on how to setup BIND on my standalaone Windows XP 3 system which connects to the internet using PPPOE? (Note: I am aware about OpenDNS / Google / other public DNS servers but do not wish to use them).

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  • installing a linux iso from within a university network

    - by pepperdreamteam
    In order to install gentoo, I need to connect to a university wireless internet network. It requires a username and password login/authentication. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice in terms of how to configure the internet connection. The Gentoo installation documentation recommends the use of net-setup, pppoe, pptp, dhcp and iwconfig. I can't figure out how to configure this connection, as the only way I understand is to select the network from a list and enter in authentication data from within a browser.

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  • Wireless router DSL connection problem help

    - by infoquad
    I recently bought a wireless DSL router to replace my wired one. After quick setup however, the router does not connect to the Internet. Wireless connection between laptop and router exists and Internet can be connected through laptop(manually) by using router as WAN miniport(PPPoE). What I want to do is connect the wireless router to Internet so that when laptop connects to router, I can start using the Internet. How do I do this? Please help.

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  • How to set-up DSL dialer for Ubuntu 12.04 LTS

    - by Mohammad Yaseen
    I have just installed Ubuntu 12.04 LTS and I'm unable to get my DSL dialer working properly. To set this up in Windows 7 I had to do following: Control Panel --- Network and Intertnet Network and sharing center --- Setup a new network or connection Connect to the internet --- Broadband PPPoE Enter username and Password.. CLick 'Connect' and Done. I am doing following steps in Ubuntu with no luck: Click on 'Two Arrows' (i don't know what they are called) on upper right corner. Configure VPN --- DSL tab --- Add Then I entered username, password, MAC address and Clone MAC address (copied from Auto Ethernet). Save The same set up used to work with Ubuntu 10.10 but it is not working here. Now whenever I click on DSL Connection 1 to connect dialer 'Auto Ethernet' gets disconneted and I end up with no Internet connection. I am new to Ubuntu, Please suggest some easy steps. I have installed ubuntu alongside windows. And dialer works fine in Windows environment, i am writing this in Windows .

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  • Why my public ip address is different when I visit different website? [closed]

    - by Mett Li
    After I connect to web via pppoe, I visit different website's phpinfo() page, but the result of _SERVER["REMOTE_PORT"] is different. Including some ip address lookup site like www.whatismyip.com, www.apnic.net etc. and gmail's ip location lookup list are all different. Why? Is these different ip address allocated by ISP on different web resources ? Maybe the reason is CDN by my ISP or the website? If the reason is the ip address allocated by ISP on different web resources, the website visitor's ip address may unreal.

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  • How to connect to the internet through broadband through ALFA USB adapter

    - by user91045
    Hi evryone I have question that really make me mad..I search every where and I couldn't find the answer.pleas read the details carefully: I have broadband (Wan mini-port PPPOE) account from a wierless network near from us...I'm receiving the signal with grid and Alfa AWUS036H wireless usb adapter.In all of windows version I can connect through my broadband when I do these steps 1.setup new connection or network 2.connect to the internet 3.setup new broadband connection then I but the ISP name(not Important just to remember my broadband connection) and then i put the username and password then connect. I can find and connect to my wireless networkbut when I make Dsl connection in ubuntu 12.04LTS and I put the username and password I couldn't connect.. I tried this tool"gnome dial up tool" and wouldn't work.. in other way..(how can I connect to broadband connection through ALFA USB adapter??) my wireless network have a servers when i check with winbox: mac adress ip adress server name version router board verson and I connect PPP through them... any answer will help me ..so we could solve this problem. thanks.

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  • got VPN l2l connect between a site & HQ but not traffice using ASA5505 on both ends

    - by vinlata
    Hi, Could anyone see what did I do wrong here? this is one configuration of site1 to HQ on ASA5505, I can get connected but seems like no traffic going (allowed) between them, could it be a NAT issue? any helps would much be appreciated Thanks interface Vlan1 nameif inside security-level 100 ip address 172.30.205.1 255.255.255.0 ! interface Vlan2 nameif outside security-level 0 ip address pppoe setroute ! interface Ethernet0/0 switchport access vlan 2 ! interface Ethernet0/1 ! interface Ethernet0/2 shutdown ! interface Ethernet0/3 shutdown ! interface Ethernet0/4 shutdown ! interface Ethernet0/5 shutdown ! interface Ethernet0/6 shutdown ! interface Ethernet0/7 shutdown ! passwd .dIuXDIYzD6RSHz7 encrypted ftp mode passive dns server-group DefaultDNS domain-name errg.net object-group network HQ network-object 172.22.0.0 255.255.0.0 network-object 172.22.0.0 255.255.128.0 network-object 172.22.0.0 255.255.255.128 network-object 172.22.1.0 255.255.255.128 network-object 172.22.1.0 255.255.255.0 access-list inside_access_in extended permit ip any any access-list outside_access_in extended permit icmp any any echo-reply access-list outside_20_cryptomap extended permit ip 172.30.205.0 255.255.255.0 o bject-group HQ access-list inside_nat0_outbound extended permit ip 172.30.205.0 255.255.255.0 o bject-group HQ access-list policy-nat extended permit ip 172.30.205.0 255.255.255.0 172.22.0.0 255.255.0.0 pager lines 24 logging asdm informational mtu inside 1500 mtu outside 1500 icmp unreachable rate-limit 1 burst-size 1 no asdm history enable arp timeout 14400 nat-control global (outside) 1 interface nat (inside) 0 access-list inside_nat0_outbound nat (inside) 1 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 static (inside,outside) 172.30.205.0 access-list policy-nat access-group inside_access_in in interface inside access-group outside_access_in in interface outside timeout xlate 3:00:00 timeout conn 1:00:00 half-closed 0:10:00 udp 0:02:00 icmp 0:00:02 timeout sunrpc 0:10:00 h323 0:05:00 h225 1:00:00 mgcp 0:05:00 mgcp-pat 0:05:00 timeout sip 0:30:00 sip_media 0:02:00 sip-invite 0:03:00 sip-disconnect 0:02:00 timeout uauth 0:05:00 absolute username errgadmin password Os98gTdF8BZ0X2Px encrypted privilege 15 http server enable http 64.42.2.224 255.255.255.240 outside http 172.22.0.0 255.255.0.0 outside no snmp-server location no snmp-server contact snmp-server enable traps snmp authentication linkup linkdown coldstart crypto ipsec transform-set ESP-3DES-SHA esp-3des esp-sha-hmac crypto map outside_map 190 match address outside_20_cryptomap crypto map outside_map 190 set pfs crypto map outside_map 190 set peer 66.7.249.109 crypto map outside_map 190 set transform-set ESP-3DES-SHA crypto map outside_map 190 set phase1-mode aggressive crypto map outside_map interface outside crypto isakmp enable outside crypto isakmp policy 30 authentication pre-share encryption 3des hash sha group 2 lifetime 86400 crypto isakmp policy 65535 authentication pre-share encryption 3des hash sha group 2 lifetime 86400 crypto isakmp nat-traversal 190 crypto isakmp ipsec-over-tcp port 10000 tunnel-group 66.7.249.109 type ipsec-l2l tunnel-group 66.7.249.109 ipsec-attributes pre-shared-key * telnet timeout 5 ssh 172.30.205.0 255.255.255.0 inside ssh 172.22.0.0 255.255.0.0 outside ssh 64.42.2.224 255.255.255.240 outside ssh 172.25.0.0 255.255.128.0 outside ssh timeout 5 console timeout 0 management-access inside vpdn group PPPoEx request dialout pppoe vpdn group PPPoEx localname [email protected] vpdn group PPPoEx ppp authentication pap vpdn username [email protected] password ********* dhcpd address 172.30.205.100-172.30.205.131 inside dhcpd dns 172.22.0.133 68.94.156.1 interface inside dhcpd wins 172.22.0.133 interface inside dhcpd domain errg.net interface inside dhcpd enable inside ! ! class-map inspection_default match default-inspection-traffic ! ! policy-map type inspect dns preset_dns_map parameters message-length maximum 512 policy-map global_policy class inspection_default inspect dns preset_dns_map inspect ftp inspect h323 h225 inspect h323 ras inspect netbios inspect rsh inspect rtsp inspect skinny inspect esmtp inspect sqlnet inspect sunrpc inspect tftp inspect sip inspect xdmcp ! end

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  • Watchguard config, drop-in or mixed-routing mode?

    - by vfilby
    I have a Watchguard XTM 2 that is currently acting as a firewall and a router for my business network, I currently have the WG setup in mixed-routing mode and am happy with the current configuration. The reason I am curious about drop-in mode is because I would like to use all the interfaces on the back of the watchguard for the same subnet. My understanding is that drop-in mode will put them all on the same subnet, but it is unclear from the manual that the routing/firewall/vpn will still work as expected. This WG is right behind a DSL modem that is setup in bridge mode, so the WG is handling all PPPoE auth and routing for the network.

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  • Cisco ASA 5510 ASDM: Setting up multiple public static ip addresses on a single interface and route

    - by ssjaken
    HI, i have a cisco ASA 5510 using ASDM version 6.3 We have a webserver that is been written very specifically and i was given super direct "DO NOT DEVIATE" directions. This server has to get traffic from 3 different PUBLIC ip's that we own. (our isp gave use a block of 12 static addresses) on 4 different ports. there are the directions i was given externalIP1:22 - 172.17.5.50:22 - SSH externalIP1:443 - 172.17.5.50:23040 - SIT externalIP2:443 - 172.17.5.50:33040 - STAGE externalIP3:443 - 172.17.5.50:43040 - PROD My first question is, using ASDM (my contract employer demands i use ASDM over CLI) how do i get three public addresses to work on one interface. We are authenticating on PPPoE. I know create a virtual interface with the static address but when i do i cannot ping the address from another offsite machine. secondly, where would i put the traffic redirect in. would i go ahead and create ACL's or just make NAT routes. Thanks.

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  • MTU, DSL router and stalling TCP

    - by user38843
    I am discovering stalling TCP connection problem. The problem arises when I try to scp stuff from remote system from my home network. My home network is connected to internet via PPPoE (ADSL+) and everything works perfectly once working from my home network. The ADSL router has MTU set to 1492 but with that setting the scp from remote system does not work - stalling! When I change the MTU on my router to 1500 the that scp works perfectly but internet accesses from my home network is very slow to most of the www sites - even local ones. Just wondering where the problem exists - my ISP blocking ICMP, etc? Thanks!

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  • ADSL connetion (BSNL dataone) with puppy Linux

    - by Vaibhav Garg
    I have an old PC which I want to use for internet browsing. I tried using Puppy Linux (version 4.3.1) for the same but have not been able to connect. I connect via PPPoE. My network card is RTL 8029b which is automatically detected by Puppy Linux. However, the LED indicator on the MODEM designating LAN connectivity stays off. This post is being typed from the same PC running XP, so there are no connection issues. I am a complete newbie for Linux. can somebody point me to instructions. I will be willing to give any more information if required. P.S. My MODEM is Huewei Smartax MT 882 Thanks

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  • Can connect to DNS addresses typed in the URL but not by IP addresses

    - by Ben
    I just changed over my modem to bridged mode, and changed my wireless router to PPPoE. My PC IP address is reserved and forwards port 80 to my computer's IP address based on my MAC address. I have a problem, however. I cannot access my local webserver by public IP address or my router 192.168.0.1 wirelessly from any other computer or iPad. I can, however, connect by this PC which is connected to the wireless router via ethernet. Via wireless, it says it cannot connect, however DNS addresses work (e.g. google.com, etc.) Any ideas?

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  • Gre tunnel Linux Cisco

    - by mezgani
    I've created a GRE tunnel between LAN A and LAN B. LAN A is behind a router, and LAN B is behind a Linux box and this box has a pppoe interface. When i do tcpdump on Linux box i see that the traffic is routerd to Linux box (tunnel end), so my need is routing the tunnel traffic to internet. I've added these rules to my iptables script, and i stay unable to connect to internet from LAN A Permitting Linux to act as router (necessary to forward packets) echo "1" /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward iptables -A INPUT -p 47 -j ACCEPT iptables -A FORWARD -i ppp0 -j ACCEPT iptables -A FORWARD -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o gre0 -j MASEQUARADE What i've forgot to set in this case?

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  • Straight cable or cross over cable?

    - by om sai
    I have pppoe internet connection. My ISP provides connections like this: ISP->media converter(fiber)->8 port switch(TP Link TL-SF1008D)->to individual internet connection account holders (like me) Now the connection between the media converter and the switch is done using 4 pair cross over cat5 cable and I would like to connect the cable running from the switch to the router and through router to my PC. So what type of cable should I use to make the connection between the switch and the router (straight thru cable or cross over cable)? The point I am trying to make is I am able to connect to the internet using straight through cable between the switch and my PC but when I connect the same cable between the switch and the router and from router to my PC I am not able to connect to the internet. Also, if I am using the 2 pair cable (instead of 4) between the switch and the router I am able to connect to the internet but same is not true in case of 4 pair cat5 cable.

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  • Edimax wireless router is not providing DNS services correctly

    - by Nathan Fellman
    I have an Edimax router that is set up to connect to the internet via L2TP on cable, and on the LAN side it's set up as a DHCP server. The DHCP server gives correct IP addresses, but it sets itself up as the DNS server. However, it doesn't provide the DNS service. I am sure that it's a problem with the router, because I have two computers on the network with the same problem. I see that on the WAN side it gets correct DNS addresses from the ISP, so I'd expect the router to either pass these addresses through to the DHCP clients, or to serve the DNS requests itself by forwarding them to the ISP's DNS. However, it apparently does neither, and there is no DNS. I switched from ADSL to cable last week. On ADSL it connected using PPPoE, and the DNS worked fine. What can be the problem here?

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  • TP-LINK-8901 modem does not connect automatically; only works in bridged mode [closed]

    - by Arash
    Possible Duplicate: Cannot Connect To Internet In Automatic (pppoe) Mode Of Modem My TP-LINK-8901 modem does not connect to internet with "always on" (automatic) connection. I have to put it in bridge mode and make a connection in Windows to connect to internet. Also, there is no configuration problem. What I did: Reset modem Update firmware Is there any way to solve the problem myself, e.g. through hardware or software? I can't have it repaired because the warranty already expired.

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  • Installing router - failed to verify router settings

    - by Andi
    I'm trying to install a TP-Link wireless router. I am using a modem an have a PPPoE connection. I connected the router to the computer and the modem, but in the last step of the Easy Setup it says " Failed to verify router settings. 1. Please check the WAN connection type and parameters. 2. Please check your connectivity and retry." The internet works fine if i connect the modem directly to the computer. When I connect the computer to the router, the wireless network is detected by other devices, but cannot be accessed. I accessed the router settings, and everything seems normal, except that it just says "Connecting...". It never manages to connect to the internet. I tried restarting the router and several walkthroughs on the web, but I couldn't get it to work.

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  • Avoiding double NAT with PPPoA connection

    - by user498429
    I've got an ASUS RT-N56U wending its way to me and have been thinking about how to set this up on my home network. I currently have a Netgear DG634g V5 and was hoping to use this device as a modem only, with everything else being done by the router. Problem is, my ISP uses PPPoA and the asus seems only to support PPPoE. I'm aware that a double NAT configuration should be avoided and I've seen some instructions here: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/33700-17-ultimate-modem-router-setup-thread Specifically, I was going to follow the guidance in the section entitled "Chaining Two Networks Together In a Cascading Fashion (Modem handles PPPoA)". That seems like it could work. However, is this a double NAT configuration or even a good way to do it? Would UPnP still work? The other option, I understand, is to buy the Draytek Vigor 120 but I'd ideally like to avoid the cost of that if its not necessary.

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