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  • Using a service registry that doesn’t suck Part III: Service testing is part of SOA governance

    - by gsusx
    This is the third post of this series intended to highlight some of the principles of modern SOA governance solution. You can read the first two parts here: Using a service registry that doesn’t suck part I: UDDI is dead Using a service registry that doesn’t suck part II: Dear registry, do you have to be a message broker? This time I’ve decided to focus on what of the aspects that drives me ABSOLUTELY INSANE about traditional SOA Governance solutions: service testing or I should I say the lack of...(read more)

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  • Using a service registry that doesn’t suck part II: Dear registry, do you have to be a message broker?

    - by gsusx
    Continuing our series of posts about service registry patterns that suck, we decided to address one of the most common techniques that Service Oriented (SOA) governance tools use to enforce policies. Scenario Service registries and repositories serve typically as a mechanism for storing service policies that model behaviors such as security, trust, reliable messaging, SLAs, etc. This makes perfect sense given that SOA governance registries were conceived as a mechanism to store and manage the policies...(read more)

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  • Agile SOA Governance: SO-Aware and Visual Studio Integration

    - by gsusx
    One of the major limitations of traditional SOA governance platforms is the lack of integration as part of the development process. Tools like HP-Systinet or SOA Software are designed to operate by models on which the architects dictate the governance procedures and policies and the rest of the team members follow along. Consequently, those procedures are frequently rejected by developers and testers given that they can’t incorporate it as part of their daily activities. Having SOA governance products...(read more)

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  • SO-Aware at the Atlanta Connected Systems User Group

    - by gsusx
    Today my colleague Don Demsak will be presenting a session about WCF management, testing and governance using SO-Aware and the SO-Aware Test Workbench at the Connected Systems User Group in Atlanta . Don is a very engaging speaker and has prepared some very cool demos based on lessons of real world WCF solutions. If you are in the ATL area and interested in WCF, AppFabric, BizTalk you should definitely swing by Don’s session . Don’t forget to heckle him a bit (you can blame it for it ;) )...(read more)

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  • We are hiring (take a minute to read this, is not another BS talk ;) )

    - by gsusx
    I really wanted to wait until our new website was out to blog about this but I hope you can put up with the ugly website for a few more days J. Tellago keeps growing and, after a quick break at the beginning of the year, we are back in hiring mode J. We are currently expanding our teams in the United States and Argentina and have various positions open in the following categories. .NET developers: If you are an exceptional .NET programmer with a passion for creating great software solutions working...(read more)

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  • Back from Teched US

    - by gsusx
    It's been a few weeks since I last blogged and, trust me, I am not happy about it :( I have been crazily busy with some of our projects at Tellago which you are going to hear more about in the upcoming weeks :) I was so busy that I didn't even have time to blog about my sessions at Teched US last week. This year I ended up presenting three sessions on three different tracks: BIE403 | Real-Time Business Intelligence with Microsoft SQL Server 2008 R2 Session Type: Breakout Session Real-time business...(read more)

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  • Tellago & Tellago Studios at Microsoft TechReady

    - by gsusx
    This week Microsoft is hosting the first edition of their annual TechReady conference. Even though TechReady is an internal conference, Microsoft invited us to present a not one but two sessions about some our recent work. We are particularly proud of the fact that one of those sessions is about our SO-Aware service registry. We see this as a recognition to the growing popularity of SO-Aware as the best Agile SOA governance solution in the Microsoft platform. Well, on Tuesday I had the opportunity...(read more)

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  • WebCenter Spaces 11g - UI Customization

    - by john.brunswick
    When developing on top of a portal platform to support an intranet or extranet, a portion of the development time is spent adjusting the out-of-box user templates to adjust the look and feel of the platform for your organization. Generally your deployment will not need to look like anything like the sites posted on http://cssremix.com/ or http://www.webcreme.com/, but will meet business needs by adjusting basic elements like navigation, color palate and logo placement. After spending some time doing custom UI development with WebCenter Spaces 11G I have gathered a few tips that I hope can help to speed anyone's efforts to quickly "skin" a WebCenter Spaces deployment. A detailed white paper was released that outlines a technique to quickly update the UI during runtime - http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/webcenter/pdf/owcs_r11120_cust_skins_runtime_wp.pdf. Customizing at "runtime" means using CSS and images to adjust the page layout and feel, which when creatively done can change the pages drastically. WebCenter also allows for detailed templates to manage the placement of major page elements like menus, sidebar, etc, but by adjusting only images and CSS we can end up with something like the custom solution shown below. view large image Let's dive right in and take a look at some tools to make our efforts more efficient.

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  • Speaking at Microsoft's Duth DevDays

    - by gsusx
    Last week I had the pleasure of presenting two sessions at Microsoft's Dutch DevDays at Den Hague. On Tuesday I presented a sessions about how to implement real world RESTFul services patterns using WCF, WCF Data Services and ASP.NET MVC2. During that session I showed a total of 15 small demos that highlighted how to implement key aspects of RESTful solutions such as Security, LowREST clients, URI modeling, Validation, Error Handling, etc. As part of those demos I used the OAuth implementation created...(read more)

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  • Tellago && Tellago Studios 2010

    - by gsusx
    With 2011 around the corner we, at Tellago and Tellago Studios , we have been spending a lot of times evaluating our successes and failures (yes those too ;)) of 2010 and delineating some of our goals and strategies for 2011. When I look at 2010 here are some of the things that quickly jump off the page: Growing Tellago by 300% Launching a brand new company: Tellago Studios Expanding our customer base Establishing our business intelligence practice http://tellago.com/what-we-say/events/business-intelligence...(read more)

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  • DonXml does WCF in NYC

    - by gsusx
    Tomorrow is WCF day in New York city!!!!! My good friend and Tellago's CTO Don Demsak will be doing a session WCF Data and RIA Services at the WCF fire-starter event to be hosted at the Microsoft offices in New York city. Don has a encyclopedic knowledge of both technologies and will be sharing lots of best practices learned from applying these technologies in large service oriented environments. In addition to Don, my crazy Cuban friend Miguel Castro will also be presenting three sessions at the...(read more)

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  • Tellago announces SQL Server 2008 R2 BI quick adoption programs

    - by gsusx
    During the last year, we (Tellago) have been involved in various business intelligence initiatives that leverage some emerging BI techniques such as self-service BI or complex event processing (CEP). Specifically, in the last few months, we have partnered with Microsoft to deliver a series of events across the country where we present the different technologies of the SQL Server 2008 R2 BI stack such as PowerPivot, StreamInsight, Ad-Hoc Reporting and Master Data Services. As part of those events...(read more)

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  • SO-Aware sessions in Dallas and Houston

    - by gsusx
    Our WCF Registry: SO-Aware keeps being evangelized throughout the world. This week Tellago Studios' Dwight Goins will be speaking at Microsoft events in Dallas and Houston ( https://msevents.microsoft.com/cui/EventDetail.aspx?culture=en-US&EventID=1032469800&IO=ycqB%2bGJQr78fJBMJTye1oA%3d%3d ) about WCF management best practices using SO-Aware . If you are in the area and passionate about WCF you should definitely swing by and give Dwight a hard time ;)...(read more)

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  • Top 7 Reasons to Attend Developer Conferences

    Learn one database developer's top reasons for attending developer conferences, if they're worth the money and will he attend again. This particular article offers the authors opinions on the recent Developer Connection Visual Studio 2010 Launch Event.

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  • Integrating ASP.NET MVC 3 into existing upgraded ASP.NET 4 Web Forms applications

    - by SAMIR BHOGAYTA
    http://www.hanselman.com/blog/IntegratingASPNETMVC3IntoExistingUpgradedASPNET4WebFormsApplications.aspx As per above article I follow the steps to integrate WebApp with MVC application. I am successfully integrated MVC project into WebApp(C#) and also VB.NET MVC and VB.NET WebApp also I am able to successfully integrated. The problem is If I choose WebApp as VB.NET project, and integrated with C# MVC project. In this case the request is not routing to corresponding MVC files. What could be the reason not routing to MVC. Do we need to plug some extra dlls?

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  • wcf web service in post method, object properties are null, although the object is not null

    - by Abdalhadi Kolayb
    i have this problem in post method when i send object parameter to the method, then the object is not null, but all its properties have the default values. here is data module: [DataContract] public class Products { [DataMember(Order = 1)] public int ProdID { get; set; } [DataMember(Order = 2)] public string ProdName { get; set; } [DataMember(Order = 3)] public float PrpdPrice { get; set; } } and here is the interface: [OperationContract] [WebInvoke( Method = "POST", UriTemplate = "AddProduct", ResponseFormat = WebMessageFormat.Json, BodyStyle = WebMessageBodyStyle.WrappedRequest, RequestFormat = WebMessageFormat.Json)] string AddProduct([MessageParameter(Name = "prod")]Products prod); public string AddProduct(Products prod) { ProductsList.Add(prod); return "return string"; } here is the json request: Content-type:application/json {"prod":[{"ProdID": 111,"ProdName": "P111","PrpdPrice": 111}]} but in the server the object received: {"prod":[{"ProdID": 0,"ProdName": NULL,"PrpdPrice": 0}]}

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  • Announcing SO-Aware Test Workbench

    - by gsusx
    Yesterday was a big day for Tellago Studios . After a few months hands down working, we announced the release of the SO-Aware Test Workbench tool which brings sophisticated performance testing and test visualization capabilities to theWCF world. This work has been the result of the feedback received by many of our SO-Aware and Tellago customers in terms of how to improve the WCF testing. More importantly, with the SO-Aware Test Workbench we are trying to address what has been one of the biggest challenges...(read more)

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  • Improving performance for web scraping code

    - by Pankaj Upadhyay
    I have a website in which the code scrapes other websites for getting the accurate data. While the code works good but there a decent lag in performance because the code firsts downloads the html stream from various sites(some times 9 websites), extracts the relative part and then renders the html page. What should I do to get an optimal performance. Should I change from shared hosting (godaddy) to my own server or it has nothing to do with my hosting and I need to make changes to my code?

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  • Google Developer Day 2010 in Sao Paulo - Keynote (pt-BR & en)

    Google Developer Day 2010 in Sao Paulo - Keynote (pt-BR & en) Video footage from keynote presentation at Google Developer Day 2010 in Sao Paulo, Brazil. Mario Queiroz, VP Product Management, Google (pt-BR) Eric Bidelman, Developer Advocate, Google (en) Eric Tholomé, Product Management Director, Google (en) Marcelo Marzola, CEO, Predicta/BTBuckets (pt-BR) Marcelo Quintella, Product Manager, Google (pt-BR) For more information on Google Developer Day in Sao Paulo, see www.google.com Follow us on the Code blog and on Twitter: googlecode.blogspot.com http twitter.com (in pt-BR) Hashtag #gddbr From: GoogleDevelopers Views: 612 10 ratings Time: 01:11:59 More in Science & Technology

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  • A Good Developer is So Hard to Find

    - by James Michael Hare
    Let me start out by saying I want to damn the writers of the Toughest Developer Puzzle Ever – 2. It is eating every last shred of my free time! But as I've been churning through each puzzle and marvelling at the brain teasers and trivia within, I began to think about interviewing developers and why it seems to be so hard to find good ones.  The problem is, it seems like no matter how hard we try to find the perfect way to separate the chaff from the wheat, inevitably someone will get hired who falls far short of expectations or someone will get passed over for missing a piece of trivia or a tricky brain teaser that could have been an excellent team member.   In shops that are primarily software-producing businesses or other heavily IT-oriented businesses (Microsoft, Amazon, etc) there often exists a much tighter bond between HR and the hiring development staff because development is their life-blood. Unfortunately, many of us work in places where IT is viewed as a cost or just a means to an end. In these shops, too often, HR and development staff may work against each other due to differences in opinion as to what a good developer is or what one is worth.  It seems that if you ask two different people what makes a good developer, often you will get three different opinions.   With the exception of those shops that are purely development-centric (you guys have it much easier!), most other shops have management who have very little knowledge about the development process.  Their view can often be that development is simply a skill that one learns and then once aquired, that developer can produce widgets as good as the next like workers on an assembly-line floor.  On the other side, you have many developers that feel that software development is an art unto itself and that the ability to create the most pure design or know the most obscure of keywords or write the shortest-possible obfuscated piece of code is a good coder.  So is it a skill?  An Art?  Or something entirely in between?   Saying that software is merely a skill and one just needs to learn the syntax and tools would be akin to saying anyone who knows English and can use Word can write a 300 page book that is accurate, meaningful, and stays true to the point.  This just isn't so.  It takes more than mere skill to take words and form a sentence, join those sentences into paragraphs, and those paragraphs into a document.  I've interviewed candidates who could answer obscure syntax and keyword questions and once they were hired could not code effectively at all.  So development must be more than a skill.   But on the other end, we have art.  Is development an art?  Is our end result to produce art?  I can marvel at a piece of code -- see it as concise and beautiful -- and yet that code most perform some stated function with accuracy and efficiency and maintainability.  None of these three things have anything to do with art, per se.  Art is beauty for its own sake and is a wonderful thing.  But if you apply that same though to development it just doesn't hold.  I've had developers tell me that all that matters is the end result and how you code it is entirely part of the art and I couldn't disagree more.  Yes, the end result, the accuracy, is the prime criteria to be met.  But if code is not maintainable and efficient, it would be just as useless as a beautiful car that breaks down once a week or that gets 2 miles to the gallon.  Yes, it may work in that it moves you from point A to point B and is pretty as hell, but if it can't be maintained or is not efficient, it's not a good solution.  So development must be something less than art.   In the end, I think I feel like development is a matter of craftsmanship.  We use our tools and we use our skills and set about to construct something that satisfies a purpose and yet is also elegant and efficient.  There is skill involved, and there is an art, but really it boils down to being able to craft code.  Crafting code is far more than writing code.  Anyone can write code if they know the syntax, but so few people can actually craft code that solves a purpose and craft it well.  So this is what I want to find, I want to find code craftsman!  But how?   I used to ask coding-trivia questions a long time ago and many people still fall back on this.  The thought is that if you ask the candidate some piece of coding trivia and they know the answer it must follow that they can craft good code.  For example:   What C++ keyword can be applied to a class/struct field to allow it to be changed even from a const-instance of that class/struct?  (answer: mutable)   So what do we prove if a candidate can answer this?  Only that they know what mutable means.  One would hope that this would infer that they'd know how to use it, and more importantly when and if it should ever be used!  But it rarely does!  The problem with triva questions is that you will either: Approve a really good developer who knows what some obscure keyword is (good) Reject a really good developer who never needed to use that keyword or is too inexperienced to know how to use it (bad) Approve a really bad developer who googled "C++ Interview Questions" and studied like hell but can't craft (very bad) Many HR departments love these kind of tests because they are short and easy to defend if a legal issue arrises on hiring decisions.  After all it's easy to say a person wasn't hired because they scored 30 out of 100 on some trivia test.  But unfortunately, you've eliminated a large part of your potential developer pool and possibly hired a few duds.  There are times I've hired candidates who knew every trivia question I could throw out them and couldn't craft.  And then there are times I've interviewed candidates who failed all my trivia but who I took a chance on who were my best finds ever.    So if not trivia, then what?  Brain teasers?  The thought is, these type of questions measure the thinking power of a candidate.  The problem is, once again, you will either: Approve a good candidate who has never heard the problem and can solve it (good) Reject a good candidate who just happens not to see the "catch" because they're nervous or it may be really obscure (bad) Approve a candidate who has studied enough interview brain teasers (once again, you can google em) to recognize the "catch" or knows the answer already (bad). Once again, you're eliminating good candidates and possibly accepting bad candidates.  In these cases, I think testing someone with brain teasers only tests their ability to answer brain teasers, not the ability to craft code. So how do we measure someone's ability to craft code?  Here's a novel idea: have them code!  Give them a computer and a compiler, or a whiteboard and a pen, or paper and pencil and have them construct a piece of code.  It just makes sense that if we're going to hire someone to code we should actually watch them code.  When they're done, we can judge them on several criteria: Correctness - does the candidate's solution accurately solve the problem proposed? Accuracy - is the candidate's solution reasonably syntactically correct? Efficiency - did the candidate write or use the more efficient data structures or algorithms for the job? Maintainability - was the candidate's code free of obfuscation and clever tricks that diminish readability? Persona - are they eager and willing or aloof and egotistical?  Will they work well within your team? It may sound simple, or it may sound crazy, but when I'm looking to hire a developer, I want to see them actually develop well-crafted code.

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  • Implement blogging system as a part of a web application/website

    - by Rana
    I am working on developing a website, where registered members will be able to write blog/tutorials and each registered site user will be a registered blogger automatically. Site news/announcements will be posted through it too. Now, will it be a wise idea to use wordpress for this purpose, or should I develop custom blogging system myself? Also, is there any impact if I use a subdomain for the blog section. user same domain (sub directory url) for the blog section. Looking forward to hear your feedback/comments/suggestions. Thanks.

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  • How to add new filters to CAML queries in SharePoint 2007

    - by uruit
      Normal 0 21 false false false ES-UY X-NONE X-NONE /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} One flexibility SharePoint has is CAML (Collaborative Application Markup Language). CAML it’s a markup language like html that allows developers to do queries against SharePoint lists, it’s syntax is very easy to understand and it allows to add logical conditions like Where, Contains, And, Or, etc, just like a SQL Query. For one of our projects we have the need to do a filter on SharePoint views, the problem here is that the view it’s a list containing a CAML Query with the filters the view may have, so in order to filter the view that’s already been filtered before, we need to append our filters to the existing CAML Query. That’s not a trivial task because the where statement in a CAML Query it’s like this: <Where>   <And>     <Filter1 />     <Filter2 />   </And> </Where> If we want to add a new logical operator, like an OR it’s not just as simple as to append the OR expression like the following example: <Where>   <And>     <Filter1 />     <Filter2 />   </And>   <Or>     <Filter3 />   </Or> </Where> But instead the correct query would be: <Where>   <Or>     <And>       <Filter1 />       <Filter2 />     </And>     <Filter3 />   </Or> </Where> Notice that the <Filter# /> tags are for explanation purpose only. In order to solve this problem we created a simple component, it has a method that receives the current query (could be an empty query also) and appends the expression you want to that query. Example: string currentQuery = @“ <Where>    <And>     <Contains><FieldRef Name='Title' /><Value Type='Text'>A</Value></Contains>     <Contains><FieldRef Name='Title' /><Value Type='Text'>B</Value></Contains>   </And> </Where>”; currentQuery = CAMLQueryBuilder.AppendQuery(     currentQuery,     “<Contains><FieldRef Name='Title' /><Value Type='Text'>C</Value></Contains>”,     CAMLQueryBuilder.Operators.Or); The fist parameter this function receives it’s the actual query, the second it’s the filter you want to add, and the third it’s the logical operator, so basically in this query we want all the items that the title contains: the character A and B or the ones that contains the character C. The result query is: <Where>   <Or>      <And>       <Contains><FieldRef Name='Title' /><Value Type='Text'>A</Value></Contains>       <Contains><FieldRef Name='Title' /><Value Type='Text'>B</Value></Contains>     </And>     <Contains><FieldRef Name='Title' /><Value Type='Text'>C</Value></Contains>   </Or> </Where>             The code:   First of all we have an enumerator inside the CAMLQueryBuilder class that has the two possible Options And, Or. public enum Operators { And, Or }   Then we have the main method that’s the one that performs the append of the filters. public static string AppendQuery(string containerQuery, string logicalExpression, Operators logicalOperator){   In this method the first we do is create a new XmlDocument and wrap the current query (that may be empty) with a “<Query></Query>” tag, because the query that comes with the view doesn’t have a root element and the XmlDocument must be a well formatted xml.   XmlDocument queryDoc = new XmlDocument(); queryDoc.LoadXml("<Query>" + containerQuery + "</Query>");   The next step is to create a new XmlDocument containing the logical expression that has the filter needed.   XmlDocument logicalExpressionDoc = new XmlDocument(); logicalExpressionDoc.LoadXml("<root>" + logicalExpression + "</root>"); In these next four lines we extract the expression from the recently created XmlDocument and create an XmlElement.                  XmlElement expressionElTemp = (XmlElement)logicalExpressionDoc.SelectSingleNode("/root/*"); XmlElement expressionEl = queryDoc.CreateElement(expressionElTemp.Name); expressionEl.InnerXml = expressionElTemp.InnerXml;   Below are the main steps in the component logic. The first “if” checks if the actual query doesn’t contains a “Where” clause. In case there’s no “Where” we add it and append the expression.   In case that there’s already a “Where” clause, we get the entire statement that’s inside the “Where” and reorder the query removing and appending elements to form the correct query, that will finally filter the list.   XmlElement whereEl; if (!containerQuery.Contains("Where")) { queryDoc.FirstChild.AppendChild(queryDoc.CreateElement("Where")); queryDoc.SelectSingleNode("/Query/Where").AppendChild(expressionEl); } else { whereEl = (XmlElement)queryDoc.SelectSingleNode("/Query/Where"); if (!containerQuery.Contains("<And>") &&                 !containerQuery.Contains("<Or>"))        {              XmlElement operatorEl = queryDoc.CreateElement(GetName(logicalOperator)); XmlElement existingExpression = (XmlElement)whereEl.SelectSingleNode("/Query/Where/*"); whereEl.RemoveChild(existingExpression);                 operatorEl.AppendChild(existingExpression);               operatorEl.AppendChild(expressionEl);                 whereEl.AppendChild(operatorEl);        }        else        {              XmlElement operatorEl = queryDoc.CreateElement(GetName(logicalOperator)); XmlElement existingOperator = (XmlElement)whereEl.SelectSingleNode("/Query/Where/*");                 whereEl.RemoveChild(existingOperator);               operatorEl.AppendChild(existingOperator);               operatorEl.AppendChild(expressionEl);                 whereEl.AppendChild(operatorEl);         }  }  return queryDoc.FirstChild.InnerXml }     Finally the GetName method converts the Enum option to his string equivalent.   private static string GetName(Operators logicalOperator) {       return Enum.GetName(typeof(Operators), logicalOperator); }        This component helped our team a lot using SharePoint 2007 and modifying the queries, but now in SharePoint 2010; that wouldn’t be needed because of the incorporation of LINQ to SharePoint. This new feature enables the developers to do typed queries against SharePoint lists without the need of writing any CAML code.   Normal 0 21 false false false ES-UY X-NONE X-NONE /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} Post written by Sebastian Rodriguez - Portals and Collaboration Solutions @ UruIT  

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  • Am I wrong to disagree with A Gentle Introduction to symfony's template best practices?

    - by AndrewKS
    I am currently learning symfony and going through the book A Gentle Introduction to symfony and came across this section in "Chapter 4: The Basics of Page Creation" on creating templates (or views): "If you need to execute some PHP code in the template, you should avoid using the usual PHP syntax, as shown in Listing 4-4. Instead, write your templates using the PHP alternative syntax, as shown in Listing 4-5, to keep the code understandable for non-PHP programmers." Listing 4-4 - The Usual PHP Syntax, Good for Actions, But Bad for Templates <p>Hello, world!</p> <?php if ($test) { echo "<p>".time()."</p>"; } ?> (The ironic thing about this is that echo statement would look even better if time was variable declared in the controller, because then you could just embed the variable in the string instead of concatenating) Listing 4-5 - The Alternative PHP Syntax, Good for Templates <p>Hello, world!</p> <?php if ($test): ?> <p><?php echo time(); ?> </p><?php endif; ?> I fail to see how listing 4-5 makes the code "understandable for non-PHP programmers", and its readability is shaky at best. 4-4 looks much more readable to me. Are there any programmers who are using symfony that write their templates like those in 4-4 rather than 4-5? Are there reasons I should use one over the other? There is the very slim chance that somewhere down the road someone less technical could be editing it the template, but how does 4-5 actually make it more understandable to them?

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