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  • How do you educate your teammates without seeming condescending or superior?

    - by Dan Tao
    I work with three other guys; I'll call them Adam, Brian, and Chris. Adam and Brian are bright guys. Give them a problem; they will figure out a way to solve it. When it comes to OOP, though, they know very little about it and aren't particularly interested in learning. Pure procedural code is their MO. Chris, on the other hand, is an OOP guy all the way -- and a cocky, condescending one at that. He is constantly criticizing the work Adam and Brian do and talking to me as if I must share his disdain for the two of them. When I say that Adam and Brian aren't interested in learning about OOP, I suspect Chris is the primary reason. This hasn't bothered me too much for the most part, but there have been times when, looking at some code Adam or Brian wrote, it has pained me to think about how a problem could have been solved so simply using inheritance or some other OOP concept instead of the unmaintainable mess of 1,000 lines of code that ended up being written instead. And now that the company is starting a rather ambitious new project, with Adam assigned to the task of getting the core functionality in place, I fear the result. Really, I just want to help these guys out. But I know that if I come across as just another holier-than-thou developer like Chris, it's going to be massively counterproductive. I've considered: Team code reviews -- everybody reviews everybody's code. This way no one person is really in a position to look down on anyone else; besides, I know I could learn plenty from the other members on the team as well. But this would be time-consuming, and with such a small team, I have trouble picturing it gaining much traction as a team practice. Periodic e-mails to the team -- this would entail me sending out an e-mail every now and then discussing some concept that, based on my observation, at least one team member would benefit from learning about. The downside to this approach is I do think it could easily make me come across as a self-appointed expert. Keeping a blog -- I already do this, actually; but so far my blog has been more about esoteric little programming tidbits than straightforward practical advice. And anyway, I suspect it would get old pretty fast if I were constantly telling my coworkers, "Hey guys, remember to check out my new blog post!" This question doesn't need to be specifically about OOP or any particular programming paradigm or technology. I just want to know: how have you found success in teaching new concepts to your coworkers without seeming like a condescending know-it-all? It's pretty clear to me there isn't going to be a sure-fire answer, but any helpful advice (including methods that have worked as well as those that have proved ineffective or even backfired) would be greatly appreciated. UPDATE: I am not the Team Lead on this team. Chris is. UPDATE 2: Made community wiki to accord with the general sentiment of the community (fancy that).

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  • Sql order by within a group by with aggregate

    - by NG
    Say I have Team/Name/Some number Cardinals Jason 8 Cardinals Chris 5 Yankees Joba 6 Cubs Carlos 6 Cardinals Chris 6 And I want Cardinals Jason 8 Cardinals Chris 11 Cubs Carlos 6 Yankees Joba 6 So, what I'm doing is grouping by team, grouping by name, summing by some number However, within cardinals I want to make sure the names are in a particular order. If I just do an "order by name desc" for example then the the whole grouping gets ignored. So how can I order within a group.

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  • [Glade] button problem

    - by Christian
    Hi, i'm using glade to designa a interface for my program written in C but i have some problem with the buttons. Can someone explain me how to set in glade an action for a button? i mean, i wrote a function in my code but i don't know how to associate it to the graphic... i set i the Signal box the GtkButton activate and i chose "on_button_activate" and in "user data" i put the name of my function but when i copile it this is the terminal answare: chris@chris-laptop:~/Scrivania$ ./provaGrafica (provaGrafica:3139): Gtk-WARNING **: Could not lookup object funzione_esporta on signal activate of object button4 (provaGrafica:3139): Gtk-WARNING **: Could not find signal handler 'on_button4_activate' chris@chris-laptop:~/Scrivania$ and obviusly the button do not work thanks

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  • System locking up with suspicious messages about hard disk

    - by Chris Conway
    My system has started behaving strangely, intermittently locking up. I see messages like the following in syslog: Nov 18 22:22:00 claypool kernel: [ 3428.078156] ata3.00: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x0 Nov 18 22:22:00 claypool kernel: [ 3428.078163] ata3.00: irq_stat 0x40000000 Nov 18 22:22:00 claypool kernel: [ 3428.078167] sr 2:0:0:0: CDB: Test Unit Ready: 00 00 00 00 00 00 Nov 18 22:22:00 claypool kernel: [ 3428.078182] ata3.00: cmd a0/00:00:00:00:00/00:00:00:00:00/a0 tag 0 Nov 18 22:22:00 claypool kernel: [ 3428.078184] res 50/00:03:00:00:00/00:00:00:00:00/a0 Emask 0x1 (device error) Nov 18 22:22:00 claypool kernel: [ 3428.078188] ata3.00: status: { DRDY } Nov 18 22:22:00 claypool kernel: [ 3428.080887] ata3.00: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x0 Nov 18 22:22:00 claypool kernel: [ 3428.080890] ata3.00: irq_stat 0x40000000 Nov 18 22:22:00 claypool kernel: [ 3428.080893] sr 2:0:0:0: CDB: Test Unit Ready: 00 00 00 00 00 00 Nov 18 22:22:00 claypool kernel: [ 3428.080905] ata3.00: cmd a0/00:00:00:00:00/00:00:00:00:00/a0 tag 0 Nov 18 22:22:00 claypool kernel: [ 3428.080906] res 50/00:03:00:00:00/00:00:00:00:00/a0 Emask 0x1 (device error) Nov 18 22:22:00 claypool kernel: [ 3428.080910] ata3.00: status: { DRDY } And then this: Nov 18 23:13:56 claypool kernel: [ 6544.000798] ata1.00: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x6 frozen Nov 18 23:13:56 claypool kernel: [ 6544.000804] ata1.00: failed command: FLUSH CACHE EXT Nov 18 23:13:56 claypool kernel: [ 6544.000814] ata1.00: cmd ea/00:00:00:00:00/00:00:00:00:00/a0 tag 0 Nov 18 23:13:56 claypool kernel: [ 6544.000815] res 40/00:00:00:4f:c2/00:00:00:00:00/40 Emask 0x4 (timeout) Nov 18 23:13:56 claypool kernel: [ 6544.000819] ata1.00: status: { DRDY } Nov 18 23:13:56 claypool kernel: [ 6544.000825] ata1: hard resetting link Nov 18 23:14:01 claypool kernel: [ 6549.360324] ata1: link is slow to respond, please be patient (ready=0) Nov 18 23:14:06 claypool kernel: [ 6554.008091] ata1: COMRESET failed (errno=-16) Nov 18 23:14:06 claypool kernel: [ 6554.008103] ata1: hard resetting link Nov 18 23:14:11 claypool kernel: [ 6559.372246] ata1: link is slow to respond, please be patient (ready=0) Nov 18 23:14:16 claypool kernel: [ 6564.020228] ata1: COMRESET failed (errno=-16) Nov 18 23:14:16 claypool kernel: [ 6564.020235] ata1: hard resetting link Nov 18 23:14:21 claypool kernel: [ 6569.380109] ata1: link is slow to respond, please be patient (ready=0) Nov 18 23:14:31 claypool kernel: [ 6579.460243] ata1: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300) Nov 18 23:14:31 claypool kernel: [ 6579.486595] ata1.00: configured for UDMA/133 Nov 18 23:14:31 claypool kernel: [ 6579.486601] ata1.00: retrying FLUSH 0xea Emask 0x4 Nov 18 23:14:31 claypool kernel: [ 6579.486939] ata1.00: device reported invalid CHS sector 0 Nov 18 23:14:31 claypool kernel: [ 6579.486952] ata1: EH complete Nov 18 23:17:01 claypool CRON[3910]: (root) CMD ( cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.hourly) Nov 18 23:17:01 claypool CRON[3908]: (CRON) error (grandchild #3910 failed with exit status 1) Nov 18 23:17:01 claypool postfix/sendmail[3925]: fatal: open /etc/postfix/main.cf: No such file or directory Nov 18 23:17:01 claypool CRON[3908]: (root) MAIL (mailed 1 byte of output; but got status 0x004b, #012) Nov 18 23:39:01 claypool CRON[4200]: (root) CMD ( [ -x /usr/lib/php5/maxlifetime ] && [ -d /var/lib/php5 ] && find /var/lib/php5/ -type f -cmin +$(/usr/lib/php5/maxlifetime) -print0 | xargs -n 200 -r -0 rm) There are no messages marked after 23:39. When I next tried to use the machine, it would not return from the screensaver (blank screen), nor switch to another terminal, and I had to hard reboot it. [UPDATE] The output of smartctl is here. I had trouble getting this, because / is being mounted read-only (?!), which prevents most applications from running. Also, it may not be related, but I have the following worrying messages in dmesg: [ 10.084596] k8temp 0000:00:18.3: Temperature readouts might be wrong - check erratum #141 [ 10.098477] i2c i2c-0: nForce2 SMBus adapter at 0x600 [ 10.098483] ACPI: resource nForce2_smbus [io 0x0700-0x073f] conflicts with ACPI region SM00 [??? 0x00000700-0x0000073f flags 0x30] [ 10.098486] ACPI: This conflict may cause random problems and system instability [ 10.098487] ACPI: If an ACPI driver is available for this device, you should use it instead of the native driver [ 10.098509] i2c i2c-1: nForce2 SMBus adapter at 0x700 [ 10.112570] Linux agpgart interface v0.103 [ 10.155329] atk: Resources not safely usable due to acpi_enforce_resources kernel parameter [ 10.161506] it87: Found IT8712F chip at 0x290, revision 8 [ 10.161517] it87: VID is disabled (pins used for GPIO) [ 10.161527] it87: in3 is VCC (+5V) [ 10.161528] it87: in7 is VCCH (+5V Stand-By) [ 10.161560] ACPI: resource it87 [io 0x0295-0x0296] conflicts with ACPI region ECRE [??? 0x00000290-0x000002af flags 0x45] [ 10.161562] ACPI: This conflict may cause random problems and system instability [ 10.161564] ACPI: If an ACPI driver is available for this device, you should use it instead of the native driver [UPDATE 2] I swapped in a new SATA cable, per Phil's suggestion. The current output of smartctl is here, if it helps. [UPDATE 3] I don't think the cable fixed it. The system hasn't locked up yet, but my media player crashed a few minutes ago and I have the following in the syslog: Nov 20 16:07:17 claypool kernel: [ 2294.400033] ata1: link is slow to respond, please be patient (ready=0) Nov 20 16:07:47 claypool kernel: [ 2324.084581] ata1: COMRESET failed (errno=-16) Nov 20 16:07:47 claypool kernel: [ 2324.084588] ata1: limiting SATA link speed to 1.5 Gbps Nov 20 16:07:47 claypool kernel: [ 2324.084592] ata1: hard resetting link I get the following response from smartctl: $ sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda [sudo] password for chris: sudo: Can't open /var/lib/sudo/chris/0: Read-only file system smartctl 5.40 2010-03-16 r3077 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] (local build) Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net Device: /0:0:0:0 Version: scsiModePageOffset: response length too short, resp_len=47 offset=50 bd_len=46 >> Terminate command early due to bad response to IEC mode page A mandatory SMART command failed: exiting. To continue, add one or more '-T permissive' options.

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  • Friday Spotlight: The Value of Oracle Linux

    - by Chris Kawalek
    Happy Friday! Our spotlight this week is on a brand new white paper, chock full of fantastic information about Oracle Linux. From the intro to Oracle Linux - Maximize Value, Minimize Cost: "This paper describes the savings and efficiencies that an IT department can realize by choosing Oracle Linux as their enterprise standard. It highlights sample deployments and explains how deploying Oracle Linux can reduce operational costs and result in less downtime, improved productivity, and greater opportunities for revenue generation.?" The paper explains exactly how Oracle Linux can reduce costs, and goes into some of the features of Oracle Linux that can make it more valuable for your organization. Read the paper now. Have a great week! -Chris 

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  • Oracle OpenWorld 2012, Live From The Show Floor Videos

    - by Chris Kawalek
    At shows like Oracle OpenWorld, we like to catch up with the session speakers and other experts with short video clips that we post on our YouTube channel. For Oracle OpenWorld 2012, we put together this handy playlist of server and desktop virtualization related videos: We were also able to catch up with a few Oracle Linux partners at the Oracle Linux Pavillion. You can find those videos here: And if you'd like to look at the slides for any of our virtualization presentations or any other Oracle OpenWorld session, have a look at the Oracle OpenWorld 2012 content catalog. There's a lot of great information there!  -Chris

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  • SUNsetting of legacy support apps to My Oracle Support

    - by chris.warticki
    Prepare for the upcoming retirement of Member Support Center, SunSolve and others.  December 10-12 will be the migration weekend to My Oracle Support.  The number one call to action to ensure continuous support is to register for My Oracle Support today.  There are still many opportunities to attend one of the remaining live sessions that the Customer Support Education team is leading.  Please join the discussion on the Support Training Community or Using My Oracle Support Community.   Register for any of the 80+ Global Sessions for Customers Welcome—SUN Customers and Partners Transition to My Oracle Support FAQ for Legacy Sun Customers   Escalation Instructions Network of Oracle Resources -Chris Warticki twittering @cwarticki Join one of the Twibes - http://twibes.com/MyOracleSupport or http://twibes.com/OracleSupport

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  • SUN Customers and Partners, preview My Oracle Support

    - by chris.warticki
    Preview My Oracle Support - now! Take advantage of My Oracle Support before full migration. Oracle Global Customer Support invites you to preview some of the support platform's key capabilities. With the preview to My Oracle Support, Sun customers and partners can have immediate access to: My Oracle Support Community, with live advisor webcasts, active moderation by Oracle/Sun support engineers, user interaction, best practices presentations, and news and announcements Knowledgebase, with more than 900,000 articles, including more than 100,000 Sun Support articles and documents.   -Chris Warticki twittering @cwarticki Join one of the Twibes - http://twibes.com/MyOracleSupport or http://twibes.com/OracleSupport

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  • Friday Spotlight - October 25, 2013

    - by Chris Kawalek
    Happy Friday, everyone! Our spotlight this week is on a really cool technical tip on the Oracle Technology Network from Yuli Vasiliev called "How to Launch Linux Utilities from Oracle Database". From Yuli's introduction: "By wrapping a Linux utility in a script and using an external database table's preprocessor directive, you can launch the utility from within Oracle Database and have the utility's output be inserted into the external table. This allows you to do things such as query operating system data and then join it with data in Oracle Database." Head on over to OTN to read the full article. -Chris

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  • How can I reduce lagging with GUI/GPU stuff -- make Unity run smaller, quicker, faster?

    - by chris
    Finally installed Ubuntu 12.04 on my HP Pavilion 2000. Have all of my apps on and loaded and am happy thus far. ONE ISSUE -- I'm experiencing a small amount of GUI/GPU style lagging when I go to open menus, move windows, etc. What settings can I disable to allow it to run sharply and quickly, even if i t means sacrificing some of the graphics? Have already installed pre-load. Just want the OS to run sharply and quickly with menu refreshes, window moves, etc. I do not mind sacrificing graphics. Somone mentionted to me I have to install video drivers but the two that come up in system settings under drivers it won't let me install. ALSO : I am driving a second 19" monitor -- would that make a difference performance wise as well? Thanks in advance. Chris

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  • BriForum London Videos

    - by Chris Kawalek
    We're back from BriForum London and it was a fantastic show. Just amazing firsthand information on real world desktop virtualization deployments, future trends, best practices, and more. If desktop virtualization is part of your job, I highly recommend checking out the event. The next one is in July in Chicago, and Oracle will be there! Here are a few videos from the show: The video below was done by the brianmadden.com folks, so click on it to go over to their site to see it. Many thanks to the team there! -Chris For more information, please go to the Oracle Virtualization web page, or  follow us at :  Twitter   Facebook YouTube Newsletter

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  • Would installing debugging symbols help for reporting bugs?

    - by Chris
    I'm running a beta version of Ubuntu (12.10) and I've been reporting crashes through apport's automated system. I've glanced at the stacktraces for a couple of the issues and noticed a lot of what look like hex addresses and these: "No symbol table info available." I was wondering if installing the debugging symbols packages from synaptic would provide better information to package maintainers when I report bugs. In other words, would the stacktrace be more useful if I installed those packages? If so, would installing those packages make any (noticeable) performances differences (will my computer run slower)? Thanks, Chris

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  • How to fix hibernate / suspend with proprietary nVidia driver?

    - by Chris
    Hi, I've just got an Dell Precision M6500 that comes with an nVidia card. Together with Kubunutu 10.10 and the proprietary nvidia driver suspend to disk or RAM does not work. It's allways ending with a running system and a locked screen (i.e. I can just enter my password and everything is as before - it's never sleeping) Can someone please help me to debug this issue? Where should I look for information? None of the log files seem to show an obvious error... Thanks, Chris

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  • The October 2013 Virtualization Newsletter is Here!

    - by Chris Kawalek
    The October 2013 edition of the Oracle Virtualization Newsletter is here! Some of the highlights from this information packed issue: New Release: Oracle VM VirtualBox 4.3. Airbus Selects Oracle Secure Global Desktop to Increase Efficiency and Accelerate Time to Market. Open Universities Australia Realizes Valuable Savings and Simplifies IT with Oracle VM. Oracle Virtualization Recap from Oracle OpenWorld 2013. Information on the "What's New with Oracle Secure Global Desktop" webcast, happening on November 7th. Plus, videos, white papers, customer spotlights, information on training, and much more! You can sign up to get the newsletter in your inbox automatically, or you can read this edition online right now. -Chris

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  • Wlan connection got lost permanent

    - by chris
    I have a desktop with a fritz usb wlan n tick and tried ubuntu 12.04. installlation is fine and wlan is working, however connection drops permanent. reconnecting manually fixes it but after a few minutes it drops again. it's connected to a vodafone 802 box with wlan n fix set. it seems that it works when i switch off n mode...but i need to test. can someone confirm or is there another solution? i have another machine with 12.04 (hp 625 laptop) running where connection is stable. any help much appreciated. thank chris

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  • The October 2013 Oracle Linux Newsletter is Out!

    - by Chris Kawalek
    The October 2013 edition of the Oracle Linux Newsletter is here! This issue is absolutely packed with information. Some highlights: Information on the "Why Choose Oracle Linux for Your Oracle Database 12c Deployments?" webcast coming up on October 30. Now Available: Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel 3 Oracle Linux Highlights from Oracle OpenWorld 2013 Oracle Linux Now Available on Microsoft Azure Faster Downloads of Oracle Linux Updates Plus, videos, white papers, customer spotlights, information on training, and much more! You can sign up to get the newsletter in your inbox automatically, or you can read this edition online right now. -Chris 

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  • Don't Call it a Comeback

    - by Chris Haaker
    I received the email like most of you about Jeff and crew stepping down and selling the blog to another company. That it is a long time associate and friend of the team we have all grown to know and love, I feel much better about the move. Who cares, Chris, you haven't blogged religiously in ages! I know, and its a crime. Blame life, Twitter, my kids, laziness or whatever else you can think of. I always tell myself I am going to make a comeback - - "Don't call it a comeback - I been here for years." But after a few posts I seem to lose my steam. Its hard to explain, hell, I can't explain it. But we'll see what happens this time. Just don't call it a comeback.  2012 rMBP 15" Quad Core 2.33 GHz 16GB Memory 258GB SSDMarsEdit 3.5 (Please Microsoft Live Team - Make LiveWriter for OS X)

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  • Friday Spotlight: Oracle Secure Global Desktop and amitego VISULOX

    - by Chris Kawalek
    Happy Friday! Our spotlight this week is a screencast about a fantastic solution that takes the security model of Oracle Secure Global Desktop and adds even more features. If you work in environments where you need to have a video record of users' interactions with applications, or need to ensure that two users can remotely work on the same session (a worker entering data in a form from one workstation and a manager typing an authorization code from another, for example), amitego VISULOX can do this and a lot more. It's built on top of Oracle Secure Global Desktop, so you get all of the great features there, plus additional unique security related features provided by VISULOX. Click the thumbnail below to watch the screencast. We'll see you next week! -Chris 

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  • How will wayland be delivered?

    - by Chris Woollard
    Mark just announched support for wayland in Ubuntu in future. I was just wondering the following (Hopefully Mark can answer). Obviously this is quite a significant piece of work. When will a version be available to test? Will it be available as a package(s) in the repository or will it be delivered as its own distribution e.g. wayBuntu? When do you expect it to take over as the default (e.g. 11.11)? Thanks Chris

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  • Oracle Linux Friday Spotlight - November 8, 2013

    - by Chris Kawalek
    Happy Friday, everyone! This week, I want to highlight a really wonderful resource, the Oracle Linux Wiki on wikis.oracle.com. You can find a lot of in-depth technical information there and it’s probably worthy of a bookmark to check in on occasionally. One of my favorite types of content on the wiki is the do it yourself hands on labs. We do these at in person events like Oracle OpenWorld and also online for our Virutal SysAdmin Days, and those are great because you can get real-time assistance if you have any questions. But, if you’re eager to learn more about Oracle Linux and don’t want to wait for one of those events, you can step through these labs in your own time. All of the information you need is on the wiki. We’ll see you next week! -Chris

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  • access denied when trying to open terminal on desktop

    - by chris
    ok so heres the skinny. I just moved some file using the sudo su command so i can move them to bin folder in file system then after closing terminal tried to reopen from desktop and got permission denied. I then rebooted and now i cant access my account and when trying to login it starts to boot then back to login screen. I then boot up in xterm and i get this message bash: /home/chris/.bashrc:Permission denied. I'm currently running xubuntu 10.04 and would like to get back in to that user. Can someone please help me. Not a noob but close to it. Thanks to anyone who helps and the quicker the better.

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  • Friday Tips #34

    - by Chris Kawalek
    Happy Friday! I wanted to take the opportunity this week to not give out a tip per se, but to point you to a really fantastic white paper that you might have missed. It's called What It Takes to Deploy and Manage a Private Cloud with Oracle VM. The paper is filled with useful information and it's written in a really entertaining style, tackling the IT challenges of a friendly systems administrator named Dave. It gives a great overview of application-driven virtualization and covers Oracle VM, Oracle VM Templates, Oracle VM Storage Connect, and Oracle Enterprise Manager. Read the white paper What It Takes to Deploy and Manage a Private Cloud with Oracle VM. See you next week! -Chris 

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  • What's New in Oracle Secure Global Desktop 5.1 webcast

    - by Chris Kawalek
    We have a really exciting webcast coming up for you this week that will tell you all about what's new in Oracle Secure Global Desktop 5.1. Hosted by Andy Hall, you will learn all the exciting features in this brand new release! What's New in Oracle Secure Global DesktopThursday, November 7, 9AM Pacific TimeRegister now. If you'd like a sneak peek, hop on over to the Fat Bloke Sings, where Fat Bloke goes into detail on some of the new features. My favorite is accessing your applications (or even full desktops) from SGD using just the Chrome web browser. In this graphic, Fat Bloke is running Oracle Linux via SGD and accessing with Chrome on the Mac. This required no installation on the client, no dependencies on any other software, nothing -- just open up Chrome, login, and all of your stuff is there. Very cool.  We hope to see you on Thursday! -Chris 

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  • June 2013 Virtualization Newsletter is Here!

    - by Chris Kawalek
    The June Edition of the Oracle Virtualization Newsletter is now available! In this issue, you'll learn about: Announcing Oracle Secure Global Desktop 5.0 Dell Announces New Infrastructure Offering with Oracle Linux, Oracle VM, and Oracle Enterprise Manager, Optimized to Run on Dell x86 Systems Oracle VM Continues to Expand Partner Ecosystem with Cisco and NetApp  Get Ready for Oracle OpenWorld 2013 And much more! Head on over and read the newsletter. You can also subscribe and have it automatically appear in your inbox each time a new edition is released! -Chris 

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  • How to create a view to manage associations between HABTM models? (Rails)

    - by Chris Hart
    Hello, I am using Ruby on Rails and need to create a view that allows the creation of records through a HABTM relationship to another model. Specifically, I have the following models: Customer and ServiceOverride, and a join table customers_serviceoverrides. Using the customer view for create/update, I need to be able to create, update and delete ServiceOverrides and manage the attributes of the associated model(s) from the same view. Visually I'd prefer to have something like a plus/minus sign to add/delete service overrides, and each serviceoverride record has two string entities which need to be displayed and editable as well. However, if I could just get the code (a kind of nested form, I'm assuming?) working, I could work out the UI aspects. The models are pretty simple: class ServiceOverride < ActiveRecord::Base has_and_belongs_to_many :customers end class Customer < ActiveRecord::Base has_and_belongs_to_many :serviceoverrides end The closest thing I've found explaining this online is on this blog but it doesn't really address what I'm trying to do (both manage the linkages to the other model, and edit attributes of that model. Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance. Chris

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