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• Web Development Goes Pre-Visual InterDev

  - by Ken Cox [MVP]

  As a longtime and hardcore ASP.NET webforms developer, I’m finding the new client-side development world a bit of a grind.  I love learning new technologies, but I can’t help feeling we’ve regressed and lost our old RAD advantage as we move heavy lifting to the client. For my latest project, I’m using Telerik’s KendoUI in Visual Studio 2012. To say I feel clumsy writing this much JavaScript is an understatement. It seems like the only safe way to ‘write’ this code is by copying a working snippet from someone else and pasting it into my HTML page.  For me, JavaScript has largely been for small UI tasks like client-side validation and a bit of AJAX – and often emitted by a server-side control. I find myself today lost in nests of curly braces that Ctrl+K, Ctrl+D doesn’t seem to understand that well either. IntelliSense, my old syntax saviour, doesn’t seem to have kept up with this cobweb of code either. Code completion? Not seeing it. As I fumbled about this evening, I thought about how web development rocketed forward when Microsoft introduced Visual InterDev. Its Design-Time Controls (DTCs) changed the way we created sites. All the iterations of Visual Studio have enhanced that server-side experience where you let a tool write the bulk of the code and manually finesse it from there. What happened? Why am I typing  properties and values (especially default values!) into VS 2012 to get a client-side grid on a page? Where are the drag and drop objects that traditionally provided 70 percent of the mark-up and configuration?  Did we forget how to write Property Pages where you enter a value and the correct syntax appears magically in the source code? To me, the tooling was looking the other way as the scene shifted from server-side code to nimble client-side script. It’ll have to catch up. Although JavaScript is the lingua franca of web browsers, the language is unwieldy, tough to maintain, and messy to debug. If a .NET JIT compiler can turn our VB, F#, and C# source code into an Intermediate Language that executes on a computer, I don’t see why there can’t be a client-side compiler that turns a .NET language into JavaScript that browsers can consume.

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• Why do programmers write closed source applications and then make them free? [closed]

  - by Ken

  As an entrepreneur/programmer who makes a good living from writing and selling software, I'm dumbfounded as to why developers write applications and then put them up on the Internet for free. You've found yourself in one of the most lucrative fields in the world. A business with 99% profit margin, where you have no physical product but can name your price; a business where you can ship a buggy product and the customer will still buy it. Occasionally some of our software will get a free competitor, and I think, this guy is crazy. He could be making a good living off of this but instead chose to make it free. Do you not like giant piles of money? Are you not confident that people would pay for it? Are you afraid of having to support it? It's bad for the business of programming because now customers expect to be able to find a free solution to every problem. (I see tweets like "is there any good FREE software for XYZ? or do I need to pay $20 for that".) It's also bad for customers because the free solutions eventually break (because of a new OS or what have you) and since it's free, the developer has no reason to fix it. Customers end up with free but stale software that no longer works and never gets updated. Customer cries. Developer still working day job cries in their cubicle. What gives? PS: I'm not looking to start an open-source/software should be free kind of debate. I'm talking about when developers make a closed source application and make it free.

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• Displaylink USB show "Logo / Loading" on monitor

  - by Ken Le

  I tried with this problem for 2 years already. LOL, today, I install Ubuntu for I have to resolve it or I will back to stupid Windows 7. First, I have 3 monitors. My graphic card is support dual ( ATI Radeon ), so I have no problem on extend those multi monitor on VGA and DVI. The 3rd monitor is Displaylink USB. After installed everything required, when I reboot, the displaylink monitor show "Ubuntu ...." like logo / loading screen. I go to System Display , Detect monitor, it only show my 1st and 2nd, NO 3RD Displaylink. I can move my mouse between those 1st & 2nd, but the 3rd is only show the Ubuntu Screen. I press Ctrl+Alt+1, then screen switch to Displaylink USB 3RD monitor, but its "Terminal" not a desktop. Then I press Ctrl+Alt+7 , the screen switch back to my 1st, 2nd, and the displaylink 3rd is witch back to Logo / Ubuntu again. This is my /etc/X11/xorg.conf : Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "X.org Configured" Screen 0 "aticonfig-Screen[0]-0" 0 0 Screen 1 "DisplayLinkScreen" Leftof "aticonfig-Screen[0]-0" InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" EndSection Section "Files" ModulePath "/usr/lib/xorg/modules" FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc" FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic" FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi/:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi/:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1" FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi" FontPath "/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi" FontPath "/var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/TrueType" FontPath "built-ins" EndSection Section "Module" Load "glx" Load "dri2" Load "dbe" Load "dri" Load "record" Load "extmod" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Keyboard0" Driver "kbd" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "auto" Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5 6 7" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "aticonfig-Monitor[0]-0" Option "VendorName" "ATI Proprietary Driver" Option "ModelName" "Generic Autodetecting Monitor" Option "DPMS" "true" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "DisplayLinkMonitor" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "0-DFP1" Option "VendorName" "ATI Proprietary Driver" Option "ModelName" "Generic Autodetecting Monitor" Option "DPMS" "true" Option "PreferredMode" "1680x1050" Option "TargetRefresh" "60" Option "Position" "0 0" Option "Rotate" "normal" Option "Disable" "false" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "0-CRT2" Option "VendorName" "ATI Proprietary Driver" Option "ModelName" "Generic Autodetecting Monitor" Option "DPMS" "true" Option "PreferredMode" "1920x1080" Option "TargetRefresh" "60" Option "Position" "1680 0" Option "Rotate" "normal" Option "Disable" "false" EndSection Section "Device" ### Available Driver options are:- ### Values: <i>: integer, <f>: float, <bool>: "True"/"False", ### <string>: "String", <freq>: "<f> Hz/kHz/MHz", ### <percent>: "<f>%" ### [arg]: arg optional #Option "NoAccel" # [<bool>] #Option "SWcursor" # [<bool>] #Option "Dac6Bit" # [<bool>] #Option "Dac8Bit" # [<bool>] #Option "BusType" # [<str>] #Option "CPPIOMode" # [<bool>] #Option "CPusecTimeout" # <i> #Option "AGPMode" # <i> #Option "AGPFastWrite" # [<bool>] #Option "AGPSize" # <i> #Option "GARTSize" # <i> #Option "RingSize" # <i> #Option "BufferSize" # <i> #Option "EnableDepthMoves" # [<bool>] #Option "EnablePageFlip" # [<bool>] #Option "NoBackBuffer" # [<bool>] #Option "DMAForXv" # [<bool>] #Option "FBTexPercent" # <i> #Option "DepthBits" # <i> #Option "PCIAPERSize" # <i> #Option "AccelDFS" # [<bool>] #Option "IgnoreEDID" # [<bool>] #Option "CustomEDID" # [<str>] #Option "DisplayPriority" # [<str>] #Option "PanelSize" # [<str>] #Option "ForceMinDotClock" # <freq> #Option "ColorTiling" # [<bool>] #Option "VideoKey" # <i> #Option "RageTheatreCrystal" # <i> #Option "RageTheatreTunerPort" # <i> #Option "RageTheatreCompositePort" # <i> #Option "RageTheatreSVideoPort" # <i> #Option "TunerType" # <i> #Option "RageTheatreMicrocPath" # <str> #Option "RageTheatreMicrocType" # <str> #Option "ScalerWidth" # <i> #Option "RenderAccel" # [<bool>] #Option "SubPixelOrder" # [<str>] #Option "ClockGating" # [<bool>] #Option "VGAAccess" # [<bool>] #Option "ReverseDDC" # [<bool>] #Option "LVDSProbePLL" # [<bool>] #Option "AccelMethod" # <str> #Option "DRI" # [<bool>] #Option "ConnectorTable" # <str> #Option "DefaultConnectorTable" # [<bool>] #Option "DefaultTMDSPLL" # [<bool>] #Option "TVDACLoadDetect" # [<bool>] #Option "ForceTVOut" # [<bool>] #Option "TVStandard" # <str> #Option "IgnoreLidStatus" # [<bool>] #Option "DefaultTVDACAdj" # [<bool>] #Option "Int10" # [<bool>] #Option "EXAVSync" # [<bool>] #Option "ATOMTVOut" # [<bool>] #Option "R4xxATOM" # [<bool>] #Option "ForceLowPowerMode" # [<bool>] #Option "DynamicPM" # [<bool>] #Option "NewPLL" # [<bool>] #Option "ZaphodHeads" # <str> Identifier "Card0" Driver "radeon" BusID "PCI:5:0:0" EndSection Section "Device" ### Available Driver options are:- ### Values: <i>: integer, <f>: float, <bool>: "True"/"False", ### <string>: "String", <freq>: "<f> Hz/kHz/MHz", ### <percent>: "<f>%" ### [arg]: arg optional #Option "ShadowFB" # [<bool>] #Option "Rotate" # <str> #Option "fbdev" # <str> #Option "debug" # [<bool>] Identifier "Card1" Driver "fbdev" BusID "PCI:5:0:0" EndSection Section "Device" ### Available Driver options are:- ### Values: <i>: integer, <f>: float, <bool>: "True"/"False", ### <string>: "String", <freq>: "<f> Hz/kHz/MHz", ### <percent>: "<f>%" ### [arg]: arg optional #Option "ShadowFB" # [<bool>] #Option "DefaultRefresh" # [<bool>] #Option "ModeSetClearScreen" # [<bool>] Identifier "Card2" Driver "vesa" BusID "PCI:5:0:0" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "aticonfig-Device[0]-0" Driver "fglrx" Option "Monitor-DFP1" "0-DFP1" Option "Monitor-CRT2" "0-CRT2" BusID "PCI:5:0:0" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "DisplayLinkDevice" Driver "displaylink" Option "fbdev" "/dev/fb1" Option "ShadowFB" "off" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "aticonfig-Screen[0]-0" Device "aticonfig-Device[0]-0" DefaultDepth 24 SubSection "Display" Viewport 0 0 Virtual 3600 1920 Depth 24 EndSubSection EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "DisplayLinkScreen" Device "DisplayLinkDevice" Monitor "DisplayLinkMonitor" DefaultDepth 24 SubSection "Display" Depth 24 Modes "1920x1080" EndSubSection EndSection

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• Where can I find game postmortems with a programmer perspective [on hold]

  - by Ken

  There are a number of interesting game post-mortems in places like GDC vault or gamastura.com. The post-mortems are generally give with a CEO/manager perspective or a designer perspective, or, more often a combination of both e.g DOOM postmortem But I have not been able to find many post-mortems which are primarily from the programmers perspective. I'm looking for discussions and rational for technical choices and tradeoffs and how technical problems were overcome. The motivation here is to learn what kind of problems real game programmers encounter and how they go about solving them. A perfect example of what I'm looking for is Renaud Bédard's excellent GDC talk on the development of Fez, "Cubes all the way down". Where can I find more like that?

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• Drawing a sprite or text causes the OpenGl rendering to 'disappear' in SFML

  - by Ken

  I'm using some SFML built in functions to draw sprites and text as an overlay on top of some OpenGL rending in an SFML RenderWindow. The opengl rendering appears fine until I add the code to draw the sprites or text. The sprite or text drawing causes the OpenGL stuff to disappear. The follow code show what I'm trying to do sf::RenderWindow window(sf::VideoMode(viewport.width,viewport.height,32), "SFML Window"); glMatrixMode(GL_PROJECTION); glLoadIdentity(); glOrtho(0,viewport.width,0,viewport.height,0,1); while (window.pollEvent(Event)) { //event handling... //begin drawing glClear(GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT | GL_DEPTH_BUFFER_BIT); glBegin(GL_TRIANGLES); glColor3f(col.x,col.y,col.z); for(int i=0;i<3;i++) glVertex2f(pos.x+verts[i].x,pos.y+verts[i].y); glEnd(); // adding this line causes all the previous opengl triangles not to appear window.draw("Sometext"); window.display(); }

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• A Skill Testing (Search Engine) Calculation

  - by Ken Cox [MVP]

  To claim a contest prize, I had to answer the following skill-testing question: 1000 - 50 / 2 x 10 Okay, it’s not a problem as long as you know about operator precedence. As a developer, my brain automatically supplied brackets. I was curious as to whether this exact skill-testing question is commonly-used in online contests, so I Googled the formula. To my amazement, Google returned the result of the calculation – complete with brackets: 1 000 - ((50 / 2) x 10) = 750 (Google) Bing also has a calculator...(read more)

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• Best way to cache apt downloads on a LAN?

  - by Ken Simon

  I have multiple Ubuntu machines at home and a pretty slow internet connection, and sometimes multiple machines need to be updated at once (especially during new Ubuntu releases.) Is there a way where only one of my machines needs to download the packages, and the other machines can use the first machine to get the debs? Does it involve setting up my own local mirror? Or a proxy server? Or can it be made simpler?

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• Windows Cloud Services Aren’t Exclusive to Microsoft

  - by Ken Cox [MVP]

  The Windows Azure brand has captured mindshare for the buzzword-du-jour, ‘cloud computing’. However, Microsoft certainly isn’t the only option for cranking up virtual machines to meet unexpected or peak demands. For example, I see that OrcsWeb has released its Windows Cloud Servers product , starting at $99.99 a month*.  Competition is a good thing - and make sure you do some cost comparisons when researching cloud resources. Some of us were unpleasantly surprised by Azure’s pricing structure...(read more)

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• WmiPrvSE.exe consuming 25% of CPU on Win7

  - by Ken Hortsch

  On my HP laptop the WMI Provider Host was consuming 25% of my CPU.  This just started one day.  The offending process ended up being the HP Wireless Assistant Service, which is not needed as Win7 provides WiFi services. To turn it off: On your desktop right-click on Computer and select Manage Select Services and Applications and double click Services Right click on the HP Wireless Assistant Service and select Properties Change the Startup Type to Manual

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• Chrome OS is missing or damaged

  - by Ken

  My Google Chrome CR-48 started flaking out/rebooting and finally this message.  This post solved the problem quite easily. http://cr-48.wikispaces.com/Reseat+SSD+Cable Two hints: 1) you need to pull off the rubber feet to get at some screws. 2) the real problem is the little white clip under the cable.  Don’t worry about reseating anything, Just push the cable back on and the little white clip back up to snap in place and hold the cable.

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• Can't use SFML sprite drawing and OpenGL rendering at the same time

  - by Ken

  I'm using some SFML built in functions to draw sprites and text as an overlay on top of some OpenGL rending in an SFML RenderWindow. The opengl rendering appears fine until I add the code to draw the sprites or text. The sprite or text drawing causes the OpenGL stuff to disappear. The follow code show what I'm trying to do sf::RenderWindow window(sf::VideoMode(viewport.width,viewport.height,32), "SFML Window"); glMatrixMode(GL_PROJECTION); glLoadIdentity(); glOrtho(0,viewport.width,0,viewport.height,0,1); while (window.pollEvent(Event)) { //event handling... //begin drawing glClear(GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT | GL_DEPTH_BUFFER_BIT); glBegin(GL_TRIANGLES); glColor3f(col.x,col.y,col.z); for(int i=0;i<3;i++) glVertex2f(pos.x+verts[i].x,pos.y+verts[i].y); glEnd(); // adding this line causes all the previous opengl triangles not to appear window.draw("Sometext"); window.display(); }

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• Pre baked fractures and explosion : I need an answer for C++

  - by Ken

  What are the prebaked or precomputed explosions or fractures from a programmer viewpoint ? I would like to know how to achieve this in C++ and how this things are usually considered (they are animations? textures?), it would be perfect if there will be some examples available or someone that can picture a broad view about this. I need to add a really small support for this in my code and i need an hint about how to start, i would like to do this on my own without other libraries.

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• Creating a SQL Azure Database Should be Easier

  - by Ken Cox [MVP]

  Every time I try to create a database + tables + data for Windows Azure SQL I get errors.  One of them is 'Filegroup reference and partitioning scheme' is not supported in this version of SQL Server.' It’s partly due to my poor memory (since I’ve succeeded before) and partly due to the failure of tools that should be helping me. For example, when I want to create a script from an existing database on my local workstation, I use SQL Server Management Studio (currently v 11.0.2100.60).  I go to Tasks > Generate Scripts which brings up the nice Generate and Publish Scripts wizard. When I go into the Advanced button, under Script for Server Version, why don’t I see SQL Azure as an option by now? The tool should be sorting this out for me, right? Maybe this is available in SQL Server Data Tools? I haven’t got into that yet. Just merge the functionality with SSMS, please. Anyway, I pick an older version of SQL for the target and still need to tweak it for Azure. For example, I take out all the “[dbo].” stuff. Why is it put there by the wizard? I also have to get rid of "ON [PRIMARY]"  to deal with the error I noted at the top. Yes, there’s information on what a table needs to look like in SQL Azure but the tools should know this so I don’t have to mess with it.

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• Good resources for learning about graphics hardware

  - by Ken

  I'm looking for some good learning resources for graphics hardware (and associated low level software). Basically I want to learn more about what goes on underneath the opengl/direcx API layers in terms of how things are implemented. I familiar with what happens in principle during the various stages of the rendering pipeline (viewing, projection, clipping, rasterization etc). My goal is to be able to make better and more informed decisions about tradeoffs and potential optimisations when graphics/shader programming with respect to the following kinds of issues; batching view culling occlusions draw order avoiding state changes triangles vs pointsprites texture sampling etc Basically whatever the graphics programmer needs to know about modern graphics hardware in order to become more effective. I'm not really looking for specific optimisation techniques, rather I need more general knowledge so that I will naturally write more efficient code.

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• Google Maps keeps displaying in Spanish

  - by Ken Hortsch

  Originally posted on: http://geekswithblogs.net/BlueProbe/archive/2013/11/12/154610.aspxIn Chrome I use Google Maps as a search provider.  That way I can just type maps for the URL address, hit a couple of tab keys, and enter the maps address and have the page rendered with my map.  Now periodically maps were displaying in Spanish with a "click here to translate to English” option.  Huh?  My language settings on the browser and within Google settings all were English.  Turns out I had set my Chrome search provider string to include a language query parm=es.  Why would I do that?  Evil twin perhaps.

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• AppleTV - itunes store is temporarily unavailable - please check back later

  - by Ken

  When attempting to rent a movie on ATV, my wife received the error message above.  Alternately “server unavailable”.  When your wife is sick, the amount of IT support she needs goes up exponentially.  One piece of the puzzle was that she had changed her Apple ID password.  On her PC I ran iTunes and under account, there was only 1 device listed (not the ATV).  Even when signed out/back-in on the ATV under Settings>iTunes it still gave same error message.  What I suspect is it thinks she is trying to authorize the device to another Apple ID.  Some new 90 day rule limits when a device can be associated with another Apple ID.  Your iTunes store/account will show devices, and how long before they can be associated with a different Apple ID from the Account Information page in iTunes on your computer.  Apple must have no freaking idea why someone would want to know which ID is associated to the ATV (i.e. the vice versa), because it can’t be done. Solution: Try ATV settings>reset I swapped out ATV 1 for ATV 2 (used for music streaming downstairs).  I know it’s a cop-out solution, but remember I had a sick wife breathing down my neck.

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• -webkit-linear-gradient Not working in Dreamweaver CS6

  - by Ken

  I've tried multiple times to apply the following piece of code in a CSS document: display: block; width: 500px; margin: 500px auto; padding: 15px; text-align: center; border: 4px solid blue; background: -webkit-linear-gradient(top,black,white); outline: 7px solid red; Everything appears correctly, except the gradient. I have CS6 Live View turned on, and it still refuses to appear. All I get in my box is a white background, as opposed to the black to white gradient. However, when I type the same line of code into the trial of Coda 2 I downloaded, it works perfectly. Is there anything I can do to resolve the issue?

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• How do I un-zoom compiz?

  - by Ken

  I'm using a keyboard I'm not used to, and I hit Super_L instead of Alt_L when I middle-mouse-dragged across the screen. On this Ubuntu 10.04 with Compiz, apparently, this zooms the screen to the area that I dragged across. Now I'm stuck. I can super-middle-drag across a bigger area, but apparently I can't quite hit all of the corners exactly because the screen still moves a bit when I move the mouse around. How do I undo this zoom effect completely? This looks like "EZoom", which says that super-"1" (default keybinding, anyway) should reset it, but that doesn't seem to work here. Close...

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• Google Chromecast cast tab from Chrome browser sucks

  - by Ken Hortsch

  Originally posted on: http://geekswithblogs.net/BlueProbe/archive/2013/07/28/153537.aspxOk so I know it’s in beta.  And I should have known when I watched the Nexus 7 and Chromecast press event and the demo showed the browser casting a slide show.  But, when I bought one of these little $35 beauties and tried casting a soccer game from ESPN it was pathetic with a 2 FPS rate.  Netflix and YouTube are awesome.  We’ll see what we get out of beta.

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• Calling a web service through a reverse proxy

  - by Ken

  I had a w/s that when I first read the WSDL in test, was http, but needed to be accessed from behind a reverse proxy with https.  Here are the steps: Change the app.config, <httpTransport> to <httpsTransport> Change the app.config and the url address in the <endpoint>to the reverse proxy address Add System.Net.ServicePointManager.ServerCertificateValidationCallback = delegate { return true; };  to disable certificate validation.  This will validate all certificates (including invalid, expired or self-signed ones).

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• Re-Route Mail to a port other than 25

  - by Ken

  Is there a way to route mail to another port? I have an email account attached to my laptop that I'd like to be able to send and receive mail from. Due to mobility, I'll be passing through various networks that will probably block this port. My dynamic DNS provider allows me to utilize web-forwards for MX domains; is this possible? where I can web forward to a domain:port which is managed by my DNS provider when I traverse between networks. If not, is there a way? Of course i could use web-mail or relay-forwarding from my home server, but that's not geeky enough.

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• What is the future of XNA in Windows 8 or how will manged games be developed in Windows 8?

  - by Ken

  I know this is a potential dupe of this question, but the last answer there was 18 months ago and a lot has happened since. There seems to be some uncertainty about XNA in Windows 8. Specifically, Windows 8 by default uses the Metro interface, which is not supported by XNA. Also the Windows 8 store will not stock non-metro apps, so it will not stock XNA apps. Should we stick with XNA or does Microsoft want us to move to a different framework for managed game development in Windows 8? Edit: As pointed out in one of the comments, Windows 8 will be able to run XNA games in a backward compatibility mode. But that smells of deprecation.

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• Error downloading novacom drivers &ndash; WebOS

  - by Ken

  I got sick of the Bing Maps on WebOS not being able to find “coffee” when I’m in St. Paul.  Coffe Pk, TX anyone? – no thanks.  So I finally got around to installing PreWare on my Palm Pre 2.  The WebOS Quick Install doesn’t successfully download the novacom drivers.  You can find them here: http://downloads.help.palm.com/opensource/novacom/novacom-win-32.tgz http://downloads.help.palm.com/opensource/novacom/novacom-win-64-tgz Don’t bother trying the Novacom Universal Installer either. Then put phone in developer mode (by Typing webos20090606 and switch on developer mode), attach phone in “Just Charge” mode, run WebOS Quick Install, select the globe icon, and search for PreWare, install.

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• How do I get the name of a package, modify and install it?

  - by Ken

  I'm not very familiar with Ubuntu or Linux, but I'm a programmer, and some people told me that you can just go ahead and modify your system. So my question is, how do you go on about that? For instance, If I'm interested in modifying the behavior of the button or the desktop icons, or whatever it is: How do I get the source code? I guess I need the package name and download it. But how can I get the package name? Let's say I want the button package, where do I look to get the package name? is there a list on a website or a help file? Once I modify it, how can I replace the original with the new one? P.S. I had some troubles finding the right tags, feel free to edit them

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• Using FindAll on a List<List<T>> type

  - by Ken Foster

  Assuming public class MyClass { public int ID {get; set; } public string Name {get; set; } } and List<MyClass> classList = //populate with MyClass instances of various IDs I can do List<MyClass> result = classList.FindAll(class => class.ID == 123); and that will give me a list of just classes with ID = 123. Works great, looks elegant. Now, if I had List<List<MyClass>> listOfClassLists = //populate with Lists of MyClass instances How do I get a filtered list where the lists themselves are filtered. I tried List<List<MyClass>> result = listOfClassLists.FindAll (list => list.FindAll(class => class.ID == 123).Count > 0); it looks elegant, but doesn't work. It only includes Lists of classes where at least one class has an ID of 123, but it includes ALL MyClass instances in that list, not just the ones that match. I ended up having to do List<List<MyClass>> result = Results(listOfClassLists, 123); private List<List<MyClass>> Results(List<List<MyClass>> myListOfLists, int id) { List<List<MyClass>> results = new List<List<MyClass>>(); foreach (List<MyClass> myClassList in myListOfLists) { List<MyClass> subList = myClassList.FindAll(myClass => myClass.ID == id); if (subList.Count > 0) results.Add(subList); } return results; } which gets the job done, but isn't that elegant. Just looking for better ways to do a FindAll on a List of Lists. Ken

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