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• check_client_access and RBLs

  - by Laurent

  In an attempt to better fight spam, I've configured Postfix like this: smtpd_client_restrictions = check_client_access hash:/etc/postfix/client_whitelist reject_unknown_client smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, permit_sasl_authenticated, reject_unauth_destination reject_non_fqdn_sender, reject_non_fqdn_recipient, reject_unknown_sender_domain, reject_unknown_recipient_domain, reject_unauth_destination, reject_unauth_pipelining, reject_invalid_hostname, reject_rbl_client zen.spamhaus.org, reject_rbl_client bl.spamcop.net, reject_rbl_client l2.apews.org, permit This config has reduced a lot of spam, and with the whitelist I was able to deal with some misconfigured but legitimate servers in order to accept them. However, I'm wondering if this particular whitelisting config will be able to do the job if some other legitimate servers found themselves blacklisted in one of these RBLs. Am I missing something?

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• vim filters and stdout/stderr

  - by ahe

  When I use :%! to run the contents of a file through a filter and the filter fails (it returns another code than 0) and prints an error message to stderr I get my file replaced with this error message. Is there a way to tell vim to skip the filtering if the filter returns an status code that indicates an error and/or ignore output the filter program writes to stderr? There are cases where you want your file to replaced with the output of the filter but most often this behavior is wrong. Of course I can just undo the filtering with one keypress but it isn't optimal. Also I have a similar problem when writing a custom vim script to do the filtering. I have a script that calls a filter program with system() and replaces the file in the buffer with its output but there doesn't seem to be a way to detect if the lines returned by system() where written to stdout or to stderr. Is there a way to tell them apart in vim script?

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• Django comparing model instances for equality

  - by orokusaki

  I understand that, with a singleton situation, you can perform such an operation as: spam == eggs and if spam and eggs are instances of the same class with all the same attribute values, it will return True. In a Django model, this is natural because two separate instances of a model won't ever be the same unless they have the same .pk value. The problem with this is that if a reference to an instance has attributes that have been updated by middleware somewhere along the way and it hasn't been saved, and you're trying to it to another variable holding a reference to an instance of the same model, it will return False of course because they have different values for some of the attributes. Obviously I don't need something like a singleton , but I'm wondering if there some official Djangonic (ha, a new word) method for checking this, or if I should simply check that the .pk value is the same with: spam.pk == eggs.pk I'm sorry if this was a huge waste of time, but it just seems like there might be a method for doing this, and something I'm missing that I'll regret down the road if I don't find it.

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• Are there white lists for Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail and AOL?

  - by Waleed Eissa

  In my website (under development), the members can send messages to each other which are sent directly to their email, now I'm worried that some members can send spam to other members (I have a spam filter but it doesn't give 100% protection as you know), I'm worried that my domain might get blacklisted on Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail or AOL which will cause any messages sent from my domain to end up in the spam folder, this is why I want to add the domain of my website to their whitelists (if they exist). P.S. I don't want to use private messages that members check on the site and I have my reason for this. Thanks

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• Is it possible / recommendable sending HTML emails containing Javascript?

  - by Adriano Varoli Piazza

  This is mostly a rhetorical question, as far as I've checked the answer is 'don't even bother', but I wanted to be really sure. We have an email app, where you can send email to lists of subscribers. This is not spam: it's used, for example, by an university to send communications to its students, by a museum to send emails to subscribers, etc. Recently, I was asked by a prospective client if it was possible to send html messages containing javascript without being marked as spam. Not knowing, I did a short trip of the webs and what I've got is (percentages out of my posterior) 'half the clients won't display properly', 'half the clients will flag you as spam' and 'half the clients will have blocked javascript altogether' (There's clearly some superposition). So the best solution seems to be adding a link to a proper page if really necessary. Have you got a different experience? Do you know of any email-merge solution that provides this feature? Do you know if specific clients accept it or refuse to display html with javascript?

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• Implementing Tagging using Core Data on the iPhone

  - by Jonathan Penn

  I have an application that uses CoreData and I'm trying to figure out the best way to implement tagging and filtering by tag. For my purposes, if I was doing this in raw SQLite I would only need three tables, tags, item_tags and of course my items table. Then filtering would be as simple as joining between the three tables where only items are related to the given tags. Quite straightforward. But, is there a way to do this in CoreData and utilizing NSFetchedResultsController? It doesn't seem that NSPredicate give you the ability to filter through joins. NSPredicate's aren't full SQL anyway so I'm probably barking up the wrong tree there. I'm trying to avoid reimplementing my app using SQLite without CoreData since I'm enjoying the performance CoreData gives me in other areas. Yes, I did consider (and built a test implementation) diving into the raw SQLite that CoreData generates, but that's not future proof and I want to avoid that, too. Has anyone else tried to tackle tagging/filtering with CoreData in a UITableView with NSFetchedResultsController

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• Incremental build with continuous integration server

  - by altern

  Does any of the continuous integration servers support incremental builds or filtering mechanism? For example, I want to configure some kind of filtering (as I call it) so that committing file to the specific folder will not cause full (clean) build triggering, but will cause only incremental build. By 'incremental build' I mean process that will put only committed files to the required place and all application would not need to be rebuilt from scratch. Working with images is good example of the case when we need such filtering and thus incremental builds: why do we need to rebuild whole application if only images have been changed? What we need to do is just place images to the dedicated place on server.

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• performance issue with a website.

  - by pradeep

  Hi, I have a website .. [SPAM LINK REMOVED]. When you see pages like [SPAM LINK REMOVED] and [SPAM LINK REMOVED]. These pages load a bit slowly in FF. Please see if the speed is reasonable or speed needs to improve and in IE 6 it takes ages to load the website. Please let me know what all should i do to increase the performance of website. I tried all the options given by firebug. But nothing much helped. If any1 can let me know where all i should take care to increase the performance it will be very helpful.

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• Parallelism in .NET – Part 8, PLINQ’s ForAll Method

  - by Reed

  Parallel LINQ extends LINQ to Objects, and is typically very similar.  However, as I previously discussed, there are some differences.  Although the standard way to handle simple Data Parellelism is via Parallel.ForEach, it’s possible to do the same thing via PLINQ. PLINQ adds a new method unavailable in standard LINQ which provides new functionality… LINQ is designed to provide a much simpler way of handling querying, including filtering, ordering, grouping, and many other benefits.  Reading the description in LINQ to Objects on MSDN, it becomes clear that the thinking behind LINQ deals with retrieval of data.  LINQ works by adding a functional programming style on top of .NET, allowing us to express filters in terms of predicate functions, for example. PLINQ is, generally, very similar.  Typically, when using PLINQ, we write declarative statements to filter a dataset or perform an aggregation.  However, PLINQ adds one new method, which provides a very different purpose: ForAll. The ForAll method is defined on ParallelEnumerable, and will work upon any ParallelQuery<T>.  Unlike the sequence operators in LINQ and PLINQ, ForAll is intended to cause side effects.  It does not filter a collection, but rather invokes an action on each element of the collection. At first glance, this seems like a bad idea.  For example, Eric Lippert clearly explained two philosophical objections to providing an IEnumerable<T>.ForEach extension method, one of which still applies when parallelized.  The sole purpose of this method is to cause side effects, and as such, I agree that the ForAll method “violates the functional programming principles that all the other sequence operators are based upon”, in exactly the same manner an IEnumerable<T>.ForEach extension method would violate these principles.  Eric Lippert’s second reason for disliking a ForEach extension method does not necessarily apply to ForAll – replacing ForAll with a call to Parallel.ForEach has the same closure semantics, so there is no loss there. Although ForAll may have philosophical issues, there is a pragmatic reason to include this method.  Without ForAll, we would take a fairly serious performance hit in many situations.  Often, we need to perform some filtering or grouping, then perform an action using the results of our filter.  Using a standard foreach statement to perform our action would avoid this philosophical issue: // Filter our collection var filteredItems = collection.AsParallel().Where( i => i.SomePredicate() ); // Now perform an action foreach (var item in filteredItems) { // These will now run serially item.DoSomething(); } .csharpcode, .csharpcode pre { font-size: small; color: black; font-family: consolas, "Courier New", courier, monospace; background-color: #ffffff; /*white-space: pre;*/ } .csharpcode pre { margin: 0em; } .csharpcode .rem { color: #008000; } .csharpcode .kwrd { color: #0000ff; } .csharpcode .str { color: #006080; } .csharpcode .op { color: #0000c0; } .csharpcode .preproc { color: #cc6633; } .csharpcode .asp { background-color: #ffff00; } .csharpcode .html { color: #800000; } .csharpcode .attr { color: #ff0000; } .csharpcode .alt { background-color: #f4f4f4; width: 100%; margin: 0em; } .csharpcode .lnum { color: #606060; } This would cause a loss in performance, since we lose any parallelism in place, and cause all of our actions to be run serially. We could easily use a Parallel.ForEach instead, which adds parallelism to the actions: // Filter our collection var filteredItems = collection.AsParallel().Where( i => i.SomePredicate() ); // Now perform an action once the filter completes Parallel.ForEach(filteredItems, item => { // These will now run in parallel item.DoSomething(); }); This is a noticeable improvement, since both our filtering and our actions run parallelized.  However, there is still a large bottleneck in place here.  The problem lies with my comment “perform an action once the filter completes”.  Here, we’re parallelizing the filter, then collecting all of the results, blocking until the filter completes.  Once the filtering of every element is completed, we then repartition the results of the filter, reschedule into multiple threads, and perform the action on each element.  By moving this into two separate statements, we potentially double our parallelization overhead, since we’re forcing the work to be partitioned and scheduled twice as many times. This is where the pragmatism comes into play.  By violating our functional principles, we gain the ability to avoid the overhead and cost of rescheduling the work: // Perform an action on the results of our filter collection .AsParallel() .Where( i => i.SomePredicate() ) .ForAll( i => i.DoSomething() ); The ability to avoid the scheduling overhead is a compelling reason to use ForAll.  This really goes back to one of the key points I discussed in data parallelism: Partition your problem in a way to place the most work possible into each task.  Here, this means leaving the statement attached to the expression, even though it causes side effects and is not standard usage for LINQ. This leads to my one guideline for using ForAll: The ForAll extension method should only be used to process the results of a parallel query, as returned by a PLINQ expression. Any other usage scenario should use Parallel.ForEach, instead.

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• Use Non-blocking Locks When Possible

  Non-blocking system calls let competing threads return and useful work to be done System call - Thread - Programming - Business - Content Filtering

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• What is the most efficient way to blur in a shader?

  - by concernedcitizen

  I'm currently working on screen space reflections. I have perfectly reflective mirror-like surfaces working, and I now need to use a blur to make the reflection on surfaces with a low specular gloss value look more diffuse. I'm having difficulty deciding how to apply the blur, though. My first idea was to just sample a lower mip level of the screen rendertarget. However, the rendertarget uses SurfaceFormat.HalfVector4 (for HDR effects), which means XNA won't allow linear filtering. Point filtering looks horrible and really doesn't give the visual cue that I want. I've thought about using some kind of Box/Gaussian blur, but this would not be ideal. I've already thrashed the texture cache in the raymarching phase before the blur even occurs (a worst case reflection could be 32 samples per pixel), and the blur kernel to make the reflections look sufficiently diffuse would be fairly large. Does anyone have any suggestions? I know it's doable, as Photon Workshop achieved the effect in Unity.

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• Multiple render targets and gamma correctness in Direct3D9

  - by Mario

  Let's say in a deferred renderer when building your G-Buffer you're going to render texture color, normals, depth and whatever else to your multiple render targets at once. Now if you want to have a gamma-correct rendering pipeline and you use regular sRGB textures as well as rendertargets, you'll need to apply some conversions along the way, because your filtering, sampling and calculations should happen in linear space, not sRGB space. Of course, you could store linear color in your textures and rendertargets, but this might very well introduce bad precision and banding issues. Reading from sRGB textures is easy: just set SRGBTexture = true; in your texture sampler in your HLSL effect code and the hardware does the conversion sRGB-linear for you. Writing to an sRGB rendertarget is theoretically easy, too: just set SRGBWriteEnable = true; in your effect pass in HLSL and your linear colors will be converted to sRGB space automatically. But how does this work with multiple rendertargets? I only want to do these corrections to the color textures and rendertarget, not to the normals, depth, specularity or whatever else I'll be rendering to my G-Buffer. Ok, so I just don't apply SRGBTexture = true; to my non-color textures, but when using SRGBWriteEnable = true; I'll do a gamma correction to all the values I write out to my rendertargets, no matter what I actually store there. I found some info on gamma over at Microsoft: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb173460%28v=vs.85%29.aspx For hardware that supports Multiple Render Targets (Direct3D 9) or Multiple-element Textures (Direct3D 9), only the first render target or element is written. If I understand correctly, SRGBWriteEnable should only be applied to the first rendertarget, but according to my tests it doesn't and is used for all rendertargets instead. Now the only alternative seems to be to handle these corrections manually in my shader and only correct the actual color output, but I'm not totally sure, that this'll not have any negative impact on color correctness. E.g. if the GPU does any blending or filtering or multisampling after the Linear-sRGB conversion... Do I even need gamma correction in this case, if I'm just writing texture color without lighting to my rendertarget? As far as I know, I DO need it because of the texture filtering and mip sampling happening in sRGB space instead, if I don't correct for it. Anyway, it'd be interesting to hear other people's solutions or thoughts about this.

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• GWB | Captchas For Everyone

  - by Geekswithblogs Administrator

  We have been getting hit very hard with comment spam as of late. As mentioned in the last post, this is something we typically deal with on a regular basis for the past 6 years, but some weeks are like this week where it is just crazy. Because of the way things are right now, I have disabled the ability to toggle on or off the CAPTCHA controls for comments. I know some bloggers are going to get mad, but we need to see if the lack of CAPTCHA on some blogs is the key cause of SPAM or if they are manually entering the data and filling in the CAPTCHA. I will report back on what we are seeing, but for a few weeks we are just going to require CAPTCHA controls on comments.This has been a public service announcement for Geekswithblogs.net :D Related Tags:

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• Sending a small number of targeted emails, is it spamming?

  - by Alex Mor

  I have a directory website and I want to send focused emails, a small amount, less than 50 a month, to some of the businesses on my directory that get many visitors. The intention is to let them now many people are viewing there page and encourage them to update it and post information on it. How can I send this small number of emails without being targeted as spam? Also, should I send it from an email with the websites domain or will it better to send from a personal email? that way at least of email is tagged as spam sometimes it won't hurt the website's reputation, is this true?

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• BitDefender Internet Security 2010

  An all-in-one security solution with protection against viruses, spyware, spam, scams, phishing attempts, intruders and objectionable Web content

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• phpbb users table entries deletion and its effects. what are all the clean up work before deleting an user

  - by Jayapal Chandran

  I am writing a window program which will run from the system tray. which will ping my phpbb board site to fetch new users registration information. So with the result i can check whether the user is spam user or not. if i feel it is a spam user then i will delete that entry from the users table. before deleting the users table what are all the other table that i should delete. so that there will not be any unlinked references which will then in due course of time gets numerous and waste of disk space. so i want to know what i should do before deleting an user so that all his other activities should be cleaned off before i deleting a user.

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• BitDefender Total Security 2010

  A comprehensive PC and data security solution against viruses, spyware, spam, scams, phishing attempts, intruders, and more

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• Spherical harmonics lighting interpolation

  - by TravisG

  I want to use hardware filtering to smooth out colors in texels of a texture when I'm accessing texels at coordinates that are not directly at the center of the texel, the catch being that the texels store 2 bands of spherical harmonics coefficients (=4 coefficients), not RGBA intensity values. Can I just use hardware filtering like that (GL_LINEAR with and without mip mapping) without any considerations? In other terms: If I were to first convert the coefficients back to intensity representations, than manually interpolate between two intensities, would the resulting intensity be the same as if I interpolated between the coefficient vectors directly and then converted the interpolated result to intensities?

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• TracerX Logger and Viewer for .NET

  Easy to use logger with a powerful viewer that supports filtering by thread, logger, etc.

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• CFilterEdit: Use Regular Expressions to Filter Your Input

  The definitive approach to filtering input text. Includes configurable error display.

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• How to build a list from Postfix maillog

  - by dstonek

  I want to build a list from maillog, maillog.x containing something like Date, Sender's email, Recipient's Email and subject of the message filtering output emails and output domain. I've read about importing from spreadsheet program a cvs file. The issue is I have to add field separators in log file. I couldn't find how to customize that. How can I do that, the list and the separator? This is an example of sending mail log Jun 11 15:24:58 host postfix/cleanup[19060]: F41C660D98A0: warning: header Subject: TESTING SUBJECT from unknown[XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX]; [email protected] [email protected] proto=ESMTP helo=<[192.168.1.91] Jun 11 15:25:01 host postfix/smtp[19062]: F41C660D98A0: to=, relay=mx-rl.com[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]:25, delay=3.4, delays=0.66/0.01/0.86/1.9, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 <538E30D9000A1DD8 Mail accepted) The list would contain the three bold fields filtering by to = [email protected]

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• How can robots beat CAPTCHAs?

  - by totymedli

  I have a website e-mail form. I use a custom CAPTCHA to prevent spam from robots. Despite this, I still get spam. Why? How do robots beat the CAPTCHA? Do they use some kind of advanced OCR or just get the solution from where it is stored? How can I prevent this? Should I change to another type of CAPTCHA? I am sure the e-mails are coming from the form, because it is sent from my email-sender that serves the form messages. Also the letter style is the same. For the record, I am using PHP + MySQL, but I'm not searching for a solution to this problem. I was interested in the general situation how the robots beat these technologies. I just told this situation as an example, so you can understand better what I'm asking about.

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• Sometimes big delay when using PHP mail()

  - by Robbert Dam

  I have a website which processes orders from a Windows application. This works as follows: User clicks "Order now" in the windows app App uploads a file with POST to a PHP script The script immediately calls the PHP mail() function (order is not stored in a db) This works fine most of the time. However, sometimes a big delay occurs (several days). Customers calls why the product has not yet been delivered. E-mail headers of delayed mail follows: Microsoft Mail Internet Headers Version 2.0 Received: from barracuda.nkl.nl ([10.0.0.1]) by smtp.nkl.nl with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 26 May 2010 16:26:51 +0200 X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1274883818-2f8800000000-X58hIK X-Barracuda-URL: http://10.0.0.1:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi Received: from server45.firstfind.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by barracuda.nkl.nl (Spam & Virus Firewall) with ESMTP id ECAFD15776A for <[email protected]>; Wed, 26 May 2010 16:23:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from server45.firstfind.nl (server45.firstfind.nl [93.94.226.76]) by barracuda.nkl.nl with ESMTP id 85bAT2AU58kkxjPb for <[email protected]>; Wed, 26 May 2010 16:23:38 +0200 (CEST) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: [email protected] Received: from server45.firstfind.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by server45.firstfind.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3+etch1) with ESMTP id o4QEM3Hb004301 for <[email protected]>; Wed, 26 May 2010 16:23:31 +0200 Received: (from nklsemin@localhost) by server45.firstfind.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id o4J9lA7M031307; Wed, 19 May 2010 11:47:10 +0200 Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:47:10 +0200 Message-Id: <[email protected]> To: [email protected] X-ASG-Orig-Subj: easyfit - ref: Hoen3443 Subject: easyfit - ref: Hoen3443 X-PHP-Script: www.nklseminar.nl/emailer/upload.php for 77.61.220.217 From: [email protected] Content-type: text/html X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Barracuda-Connect: server45.firstfind.nl[93.94.226.76] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1274883820 X-Barracuda-Bayes: INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -2.0210 X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam & Virus Firewall at nkl.nl X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.92 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.92 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=2.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=3.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_96_XX, DATE_IN_PAST_96_XX_2, HTML_MESSAGE, MIME_HEADER_CTYPE_ONLY, MIME_HTML_ONLY, NO_REAL_NAME X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.2.30817 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 NO_REAL_NAME From: does not include a real name 0.01 DATE_IN_PAST_96_XX Date: is 96 hours or more before Received: date 0.00 MIME_HTML_ONLY BODY: Message only has text/html MIME parts 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.86 MIME_HEADER_CTYPE_ONLY 'Content-Type' found without required MIME headers 2.07 DATE_IN_PAST_96_XX_2 DATE_IN_PAST_96_XX_2 Return-Path: [email protected] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 May 2010 14:26:51.0343 (UTC) FILETIME=[7B80DDF0:01CAFCDF] The delay seems to occur here: Received: from server45.firstfind.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by server45.firstfind.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3+etch1) with ESMTP id o4QEM3Hb004301 for <[email protected]>; Wed, 26 May 2010 16:23:31 +0200 Received: (from nklsemin@localhost) by server45.firstfind.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id o4J9lA7M031307; Wed, 19 May 2010 11:47:10 +0200 I've reported this issue various times to the web hosting service that hosts my website. They say the delay does not occur in their network (impossible). But they do confirm that the e-mail is first seen in their mail server on May 26, which is 7 days after the mail has been composed. The order is marked with the timestamp of the user's local PC, which also matches May 19 (so it's not a PC clock problem) It's also interesting to see that all delayed mails (orders were placed on different days) come in at once. So I suddenly receive 14 e-mail in my mailbox from various days. Any idea were this delay may be introduced? Could there be a bug in my PHP code that causes this? (I cannot believe I can introduce a loop of 7 days in my PHP code)

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• external postfix forwarding to zimbra server

  - by Marko

  I want to migrate from my current mail server (old_server) for my domain mydomain.com. old_server setup is Postfix+LDAP+Cyrus. Now I want to migrate my domain mail to Zimbra server (zimbra), but I am considering option to leave current mail server working in the first phase, and then to only have subset of email addresses to be forwarded to zimbra server. It seems that zimbra refers this in their documentation as 'edge MTA'. Current config mydomain.com MX: old_server <---------- smtp send ----------> smtp receive New config mydomain.com MX: old_server zimbra <------------------------------------------- smtp send ----------> smtp receive ---- forward ----> smtp receive I need following: old_server to receive mail for my domain as before, but for some of the email addresses I want them to be delivered to zimbra server. I should be able to determine which email addresses will be forwarded. I would like to avoid possible false spam detections for mails from mydomain.com due to this setup. Questions: How should I configure postfix on old_server to support this mail forwarding? To avoid false spam detection, can I have outgoing mail from mydomain.com to be sent by zimbra or should I use old_server? Is there anything extra I would need to do in order to avoid possibility of my outgoing mails being marked as spam on other servers?

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• Group policy not applying to security group

  - by ihavenoideawhatimdoing

  Preface: I have enough privileges to create GPOs in my OU, and have made a few of them for some simple tasks (like deploying a printer to certain users). Not actually a sysadmin...I'm a developer who is winging it. I wanted to create a GPO that would set a mapped folder for a certain security group (which I recently created and that contains only myself). Did the following: Created the GPO in MyOU - Users Removed the default Authenticted Users under Security Filtering Add the security group with my account to Security Filtering Set up the mapping via the User Configuration option Changed GPO Status to "Computer configuration settings disabled" Left WMI filtering to Closed the GPO at this point... Logged in as the target user; ran gpupdate /force Logged out, logged in, ran gpresult /r, no mention of my GPO Rebooted Logged in, re-ran gpupdate /force Logged out, logged in, ran gpresult /r, still no mention of my GPO If I log in with another completely different user, their RSOP information shows that the new GPO is being ignored due to a security restriction, so it appears to be "working" for other users. I just can't get it to actually show up in RSOP for the user it should be working. Is there anything else I can do short of rebooting endlessly and crossing my fingers?

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