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• What is the best Solid State File System (SSDFS) for Linux?

  - by The Rook

  EXT4 is not a solid state file system. It won't take full advantage of the hardware and it will ware out the drive. So what is the best Solid State File System for Linux? I am looking forward to ButterFS (btrfs), but its not suitable for production systems. I'm also interested to know why you like a particular ssdfs.

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• Is it wise to use SSHDs (Solid state hybrid drives) on a server?

  - by Seb

  I have a bunch of servers with very heavy I/O that currently use SATA3/SAS drives, but do suffer from I/O wait on the SATA drives, and I have just been alerted to the existence of SSHDs which cost the same for 1TB as the 1TB SATA drives that we currently use. However, previously (until Seagate shipped their first 3.5" SSHD in March) they seemed to be exclusively for Netbooks/Notebooks, which leads me to suspect they're not exactly built for the heavy I/O they'd be in for with my servers. So, would an SSHD give me a performance boost over my SATA3 drives in a heavy I/O environment (such as multiple very large high speed file transfers) or is it best to stick with SATA3 with I/O wait??

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• Server responses "bus error" to every command

  - by Temnovit

  I have a linux machine dedicated to MySQL server with a pretty high load. Today I woke up and was terrified to see, that database server is down. I could connect to it via SSH, but it was responding with bus error to each and every command. [root@r1304 home]# ls Bus error [root@r1304 home]# tail /var/log/messages Bus error [root@r1304 home]# reboot Bus error [root@r1304 home]# free -m Bus error [root@r1304 home]# chkdisk Bus error I went to Data Center and did a hard reset, which seemed to help, but after a half an hour situation reapeated and now I can't even connet via SSH anymore. Any ideas what this could be? how to diagnose such a problem and what are possible fixes? Server has 32 GB RAM, 2xSSD drives with software RAID UPDATE According to Zabbix, when MySQL died, number of processes stated to increase drammaticaly, until I did a hard reset. What could those be? Number of processes

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• Compatibility of Fedora install on a Hybrid drive

  - by kjh

  I recently bought un ultrabook with a 500gb/32gb sdd hdd hybrid drive, and I'm having trouble replacing windows on it with fedora seventeen. it errors out saying there was an unhandled exception. Is linux compatible with hybrid drives? or can the operating system on a hybrid drive not be replaced? Edit: here are the steps I select special storage devices because it ignores my hard drives otherwise at this point i get the message: "Disk contains bios raid meta data, disk sda will be ignored" I can pick a hostname, select my timezone and set a password at the install type screen, no matter what I select (use all free space, replace linux systems, create custom partition etc..) once I click next, it says "an unhandled exception" has occured. and I can no longer proceed with installation. Here is the error message: anaconda 17.29 exception report Traceback (most recent call first); File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/size-packages/pyanaconda/bootloader.py"; line 183 self.stage1_drive=self_drives[0] File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/pyanaconda/rw/cleardisks_gui.ph"; line... and tons of more lines like that

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• Different versions of 2.5" drives? Unscreawing Intel 320 for slimmer drive to fit newer thinkpads?

  - by hhh

  My x60s laptops come with about 1-2mm heigher 2.5" HDD than newer x220 models. This is totally stupid when one would like to reuse the old drive in the newer laptops. I bought newer 2.5" 320 Intel SSDs and they seem to have such 1-2mm gap to unscrew but I am unsure whether it is meant for opening. Could someone instruct what to do here? Look the manufacturer has started changing the old good 2.5" drives into slightly different versions, now it means slow compability issues to fix or totally new 2.5" drives. Ideas how to proceed? Unscrewing newer 320 drives or are some other versions of 2.5" drives meant for x220? Does there exist some sort of racks to get drives working between different comps? Perhaps booting from laplink is currently the easiest solution to get things working when changing harddrives between comps? Perhaps related http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/seagate-announced-super-slim-25in-momentus-thin-hard-drive/6439

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• Installing Windows on multiple computers

  - by Rob

  At our work we've decided to buy SSDs to speed up our computers. We'd also like to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 8.1 (read clean install) I'm talking about 10 computers which going to have a fully clean installation. Is there any trick I can use to avoid installing Windows 10 times? The computers (most of them) are different in hardware, so I think duping is no good option. What can I do? I'd like to spend as less time as possible because all computers are going to need SQL Management Studio and Visual Studio 2012/2013. Thanks!

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• Windows 8 Killed my SSDs

  - by SLaks

  I have a computer running 2 256GB Crucial M4's (CT256M4SSD2) in a RAID 0 (striped) array on an ASUS P9X79 Pro using Intel's (built-in) RAID system. I recently installed Windows 8 Pro as UEFI on this RAID array. (wiping a fully-function Windows 7 non-UEFI installation) Now, whenever the computer is left running for about an hour, the system no longer sees those drives. Since those drives contain Windows, this leads to various forms of BSODs. If I Intel RSTe (RAID manager) is running at the time, it will say that the disk backing that RAID array has been removed. Once this happens, if I reset the computer, it will no longer boot. Entering BIOS setup shows that the SATA 3 (6Gbps) ports that those disks are connected to are both empty. If I then power down the system completely, then turn it on again, the drives reappear, but the problem repeats after another hour or so. I have inconclusively determined that the problem occurs even if Windows is not running (booted into the installation environment from a UEFI flash drive) I don't think there has been any data corruption since this started happening, although I have had two strange issues with a GIT repo on that disk. sfc /ScanNow and Intel's disk check (in RSTe) both do not find anything. Does anyone know what might cause this?

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• How do I verify that TRIM is activated? (linux)

  - by data_jepp

  I have kernel*.32 and I use ext4 on my drive. Now I just don't know how to check if trim support is enabled?

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• Is it worth having SATA 6GB/s cables? [duplicate]

  - by zyboxenterprises

  This question already has an answer here: Are all SATA cables compatible with SATA 3? 2 answers I've just received some SATA 3 6GB/s cables that I ordered last week, and it struck me how ordinary they look when compared to normal standard SATA cables. My PCI-E SATA3 card is yet to arrive. My question is, would a standard SATA cable have the same transfer speeds as my SATA 3 6GB/s cables? Question is similar to this one, but however it doesn't have an answer. This question isn't asking 'are all SATA cables compatible with SATA 3', it's asking whether SATA 2 and SATA 3 transfer speeds are the same.

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• RAID 10 over RAID 5 when using SSDs

  - by root

  I am considering implementing an iSCSI shared storage array using SATA SSDs instead of the 15k RPM SAS drives we normally purchase. We normally use RAID 10 because of spindle contention with the random IO produced by virtualized workloads. I was wondering if we could switch to RAID 5 or RAID 6 to have more usuable space now that spindle contention is less of an issue. A question in my mind is how much overhead there is from the controller calculating parity. I am aware that this configuration will not allow TRIM to function. Our current workloads are running on a Dell H800 with a 24 bay external enclosure.

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• Upgrade using downloaded $40 to Win8 x64 to blank SSD using only retail 32Bit XP install CD

  - by Ron

  Here is my situation. Purchase the downloadable $40 UPGRADE version of Windows 8. Install this upgrade to a new/blank SSD drive WITHOUT prior installation of retail version of XP/service pack 3 (prefered). I have the retail purchased 32Bit XP installation media and I also have a slipstreamed disc that contains service pack 2. This 32bit XP license was installed to a desktop PC that I have NOT used for years (its broke). Questions: Can I upgrade using the $40 download upgrade version from retail 32Bit XP to 64Bit Windows 8 directly to new SSD? without first installing 32bit XP to new SSD? If 32bit XP needs to be installed to perform the upgrade to 64bit Win 8 is service XP service pack 3 still available; likewise, if the boxed retail version of XP 32bit is required to be pre-installed to the new SSD before attempting the downoladed $40 upgrade to 64Bit Win, can a clean install be performed or is a undesired actual upgrade performed? From what I have read this is way to complicated. Ideally, I should be able to install $40 upgrade version Win 64bit directly to new/blank SSD, then during the license verification process enter both the Win8 64Bit upgrade key and retail XP 32bit key (over internet or phone call). Thanks Very Much In Advance for any insight!! Regards, Ron

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• Need new developers-laptop, with ubuntu. Multiple ext displays, ssd, dock, NO DVD [closed]

  - by Ole Morten Amundsen

  I'm having a really hard time finding a great alternative for Macbook Pro (I have a MB pro '08). I'd like to return to ubuntu and need a kick-ass laptop. If you help, you've lead me back to linux :) Req: ubuntu friendly lots of memory 8G+ ssd 160GB+ great processor (intel sandy?) connect up to three external displays. this triple display looks cool No optical drive, NO DVD 13-17" dock. In place of the ridiculous optical drive (It's like having a floppy drive IMO): extra battery? 2nd ssd? extra graphics card? your suggestion The laptop should be designed for not having dvd. I can't find many, unless they are tiny 11"... I'm exited to know your answers!

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• If else structure in system sequence diagrams

  - by mohammad-nasser

  Can we use If else structure in system sequence diagrams? if yes then how? Please help me. Thanks. . .

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• What's your experience with Flash drives?

  - by Jon Ericson

  EMC is marketing Solid State Flash Drives and my project is thinking about moving that direction in the future. Does anyone have any experience with replacing traditional disk storage with flash drives? Besides price, have you experienced any downsides to the technology?

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• Finding underlying cause of Window 7 Account corruption.

  - by Carl Jokl

  I have been having trouble with my Sister's computer which I built. It is running Windows 7 Ultimate x64. The problem is that I have had problems with the accounts becoming corrupted. First problems manifest themselves in the form of Windows saying the profile failed to be loaded properly and a temporary profile. Eventually the account will not allow login at all. An error message along the lines the authentication service failing the login. I have found information about this problem and how to fix it. The problem being that something has corrupted the account profile and backing up and recreating the accounts fixes the problem. I have been able to fix things and get logins working again but over the period of usually about a week it happens again. Bit by bit the accounts corrupt and then it is back to square one. I am frustrated because I don't know what the underlying cause of the problem is i.e. what is causing the accounts to be corrupted in the first place. At the moment I am just treating the symptoms. I was hoping someone who may have more experience with dealing with this problem might be able to help me find the root cause. Some articles suggest that Norton Internet Security is a big culprit of this problem which is installed. I could try uninstalling Norton and see if it helps. The one thing which is different about this computer to any other I have built is that it has a solid state drive. Actually it has both a hard drive and solid state drive. The documents and settings i.e. the Users directory is stored on the hard drive. This was done following an article about moving the user account data onto a separate drive on Windows 7 which I found on the Internet. Moving the User accounts is more of a pain under Windows 7 and this solution involved creating a low level file system link to the folder from the boot drive (Solid State) to the Hard Drive. The idea is that the computer behaves just as if it is accessing the User's folder from the boot drive but actually the data is stored on the hard drive. This may have nothing to do with the cause of the problem but due to the problem being user account corruption it is a possibility I have not been able to rule out. Any help would be appreciated as I would be glad to see the back of this problem.

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• When to define SDD operations System->Actor?

  - by devoured elysium

  I am having some trouble understanding how to make SDDs, as I don't fully grasp why in some cases one should define operations for System - Actor and in others don't. Here is an example: 1) The User tells the System that wants to buy some tickets, stating his client number. 2) The System confirms that the given client number is valid. 3) The User tells the System the movie that wants to see. 4) The System shows the set of available sessions and seats for that movie. 5) The System asks the user which session/seat he wants. 6) The user tells the System the chosen session/seat. This would be converted to: a) -----> tellClientNumber(clientNumber) b) <----- validClientNumber c) -----> tellMovieToSee(movie) d) <----- showsAvailableSeatsHours e) -----> tellSystemChosenSessionSeat(session, seat) I know that when we are dealing with SDD's we are still far away from coding. But I can't help trying to imagine how it how it would have been had I to convert it right away to code: I can understand 1) and 2). It's like if it was a C#/Java method with the following signature: boolean tellClientNumber(clientNumber) so I put both on the SDD. Then, we have the pair 3) 4). I can imagine that as something as: SomeDataStructureThatHoldsAvailableSessionsSeats tellSystemMovieToSee(movie) Now, the problem: From what I've come to understand, my lecturer says that we shouldn't make an operation on the SDD for 5) as we should only show operations from the Actor to the System and when the System is either presenting us data (as in c)) or validating sent data (such as in b)). I find this odd, as if I try to imagine this like a DOS app where you have to put your input sequencially, it makes sense to make an arrow even for 5). Why is this wrong? How should I try to visualize this? Thanks

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• When to define SDD(System Sequence Diagram) operations System->Actor?

  - by devoured elysium

  I am having some trouble understanding how to make System Sequence Diagrams, as I don't fully grasp why in some cases one should define operations for System - Actor and in others don't. Here is an example: Let's assume the System is a Cinema Ticket Store and the Actor is a client that wants to buy a ticket. 1) The User tells the System that wants to buy some tickets, stating his client number. 2) The System confirms that the given client number is valid. 3) The User tells the System the movie that wants to see. 4) The System shows the set of available sessions and seats for that movie. 5) The System asks the user which session/seat he wants. 6) The User tells the System the chosen session/seat. This would be converted to: a) -----> tellClientNumber(clientNumber) b) <----- validClientNumber c) -----> tellMovieToSee(movie) d) <----- showsAvailableSeatsHours e) -----> tellSystemChosenSessionSeat(session, seat) I know that when we are dealing with SDD's we are still far away from coding. But I can't help trying to imagine how it how it would have been had I to convert it right away to code: I can understand 1) and 2). It's like if it was a C#/Java method with the following signature: boolean tellClientNumber(clientNumber) so I put both on the SDD. Then, we have the pair 3) 4). I can imagine that as something as: SomeDataStructureThatHoldsAvailableSessionsSeats tellSystemMovieToSee(movie) Now, the problem: From what I've come to understand, my lecturer says that we shouldn't make an operation on the SDD for 5) as we should only show operations from the Actor to the System and when the System is either presenting us data (as in c)) or validating sent data (such as in b)). I find this odd, as if I try to imagine this like a DOS app where you have to put your input sequencially, it makes sense to make an arrow even for 5). Why is this wrong? How should I try to visualize this? Thanks

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• How to avoid HDD spin up at system start? (Ubuntu from SSD)

  - by Oliver

  Thanks to hdparm -B1 /dev/sdb my HDD does no longer spin up when powered up on boot. But after completing the BIOS POST messages and starting Ubuntu the HDD gets a signal over the SATA data cable and spins up. Leaving the data cable (but still with plugged in SATA power cable) let the system boot up completely from my SSD without spinning up the HDD. What causes the HDD to spin up? Maybe Grub2? Edit: nope, doesn't seem to be Grub2 that spins up the drive. I just set up Grub to show its menu without timer. Nothings happens until I hit the Ubuntu standard boot option, then a few seconds later the drive spins up.

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• How do you monitor SSD wear in Windows when the drives are presented as 'generic' devices?

  - by MikeyB

  Under Linux, we can monitor SSD wear fairly easily with smartmontools whether the drive is presented as a normal block device or a generic device (which happens when the drive has been hardware RAIDed by certain controllers such as the one on the IBM HS22). How can we do the equivalent under Windows? Does anyone actually use smartmontools? Or are there other packages out there? The problem is that SCSI Generic devices just don't show up in Windows. If the drives aren't RAIDed we can see them fine. How I'd do it in Linux: sles11-live:~ # lsscsi -g [1:0:0:0] disk SMART USB-IBM 8989 /dev/sda /dev/sg0 [2:0:0:0] disk ATA MTFDDAK256MAR-1K MA44 - /dev/sg1 [2:0:1:0] disk ATA MTFDDAK256MAR-1K MA44 - /dev/sg2 [2:1:8:0] disk LSILOGIC Logical Volume 3000 /dev/sdb /dev/sg3 sles11-live:~ # smartctl -l ssd /dev/sg1 smartctl 5.42 2011-10-20 r3458 [x86_64-linux-2.6.32.49-0.3-default] (local build) Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net Device Statistics (GP Log 0x04) Page Offset Size Value Description 7 ===== = = == Solid State Device Statistics (rev 1) == 7 0x008 1 26~ Percentage Used Endurance Indicator |_ ~ normalized value sles11-live:~ # smartctl -l ssd /dev/sg2 smartctl 5.42 2011-10-20 r3458 [x86_64-linux-2.6.32.49-0.3-default] (local build) Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net Device Statistics (GP Log 0x04) Page Offset Size Value Description 7 ===== = = == Solid State Device Statistics (rev 1) == 7 0x008 1 3~ Percentage Used Endurance Indicator |_ ~ normalized value

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• How to diagnose issue between mobo, RAID, and SSD cache drive? [migrated]

  - by goober

  Background This issue is happening on my custom-built desktop. Relevant specs: Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V PRO Utilizing Intel RST technology (application that uses unused SSD as cache) Processor: Intel core i7-2600k (not overclocked) HDDs: RAID1 of 2x Seagate Barracuda 1TB (ST31000524AS) (RAID performed via z68 chipset) Machine has run fine for ~1 year with no issues, and has been well-maintained (dust, etc.) What Happened Random Freezing issues -- intermittent Looked at the RST application screen to see that the acceleration cache was listed as "unavailable" -- recommended that I power down and reconnect the drive. Reconnected the drive to no avail. Attempted to move the drive to another SATA port. Acceleration option disappeared from RST software. Now, the freeze happens whenever loading something particularly data-driven (a video, a game, etc.) Steps Attempted Reconnected the drive to no avail. Updated Intel RST software to v. 11.6.0.1030 to see if that made a difference. Attempted to move the drive to another SATA port. Acceleration option disappeared from RST software. Connected the drive as its own volume. Formatted it, ran disk check errors -- all seems fine. Reconnected the drive and selected it again as the cache drive. Now, what happens when there is a freeze: Machine freezes I am unable to perform any command Screen then goes black I hit the reset button During boot, all drives show as "Disabled" and I am told no volume can be found I then hit the reset button (or power off/on) again. Either the next time (or sometimes after repeating this once more), the metadata cache is reconstructed and the system boots fine, showing the SSD as a cache. Question I believe this is an issue with the SSD itself, but how can I be sure since connecting it separately appeared to show no problems? I want to make sure it's not an issue with the motherboard, SATA ports, etc.

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• SSD and HDD have window 7 recovery partition. Can I delete one to make room for ubuntu?

  - by Brian Ecker

  I'm trying to install ubuntu right now, and I've run into a problem. I have Windows 7 installed on my SSD, and I want to install ubuntu on my HDD, but I already have three partitions on my HDD. The partitions are two Recovery Partitions and one data partition. What I don't understand is why my data drive(the HDD) has recovery partitions for Windows 7? The same recovery partitions(or atleast I think they are the same. Same sizes, same names, same order) are on the SSD with the Windows 7 install. Can I safely delete the recovery partitions on the HDD? My other option, I think, is to put the boot partition for ubuntu on the SSD where I only have three partitions. Then I can put the other three logical partitions for ubuntu in an extended partition on the HDD. Can I do that, put the boot partition on one drive and the other partitions on another? Here is a picture of the partitions and I have circled the one I would like to delete to make room. http://imgur.com/XOpJQ

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• UEFI/GPT Win 7 Load Failure in Dual Boot and no GRUB2 [Ubuntu 12.04]

  - by cristian_jordache

  Configuration: MBB: ASRock X79 Extreme6 Win 7 installed on a INTEL 40GB SSD (GPT partitioned) Ubuntu 14.04 on a CORSAIR 30GB SSD (Ext4 and SWAP) I had Windows 7 installed previously in UEFI mode, using 3 partitions (GPT) and works fine if left alone. In UEFI BIOS settings I can see sometimes a "Windows Boot Manager" and other times (?) a "UEFI Intel" entry for INTEL HDD and Windows will boot properly selecting the one available at that time. I installed Ubuntu 14.04 after Win 7 w/o changing any UEFI BIOS settings and it works fine only if the BIOS is set w/ the Ubuntu partition as the first drive to boot, in AHCI mode. If both SSD drives are connected, the Win7 Intel boot drive can be chosen as first boot device but only as an "AHCI Intel drive" (No "Windows Boot Manager" nor "UEFI Intel device" options available in BIOS Boot menu) and Win7 will not load properly as long as the Ubuntu Crucial SSD is NOT PHYSICALLY DISCONNECTED. Windows will try, start booting for few seconds but will fail replacing Win7 logo and that startup animation with w/ the "old" white progress bar and then and will notify that there is a issue and prompt the user to try to Load Win 7 in Normal Mode again or try a Recovery Mode to fix it. If I let Windows INTEL HDD boot via BIOS/UEFI - Windows Boot manager selection, I may see the purple screen of Grub2 loaded for a while, but there's no selection for Ubuntu or Windows and/or then machine is not booting, showing a black screen and a small command prompt cursor blinking on top. So far the only option I see to have Ubuntu boot side by side w/ Win 7 is to reformat the Win7 SDD and set it boot in legacy BIOS mode with a MBR instead of GPT. Per my understanding this is a quite complex issue to fix (Rod Smith's answer was pretty helpful: UEFI boot on my Asus k52f) but any other suggestions are welcome. I find a bit odd that I can boot properly Windows7 SSD or an Ubuntu DVD using a DVD drive set in UEFI-BIOS in "AHCI mode" and w/ using "UEFI/Windows Boot Manager" booting option but I cannot boot a secondary SSD-HDD w/ Ubuntu having the same BIOS/UEFI Boot configuration. Looks like plugging the second SSD [the Ubuntu partition] is interfering with boot options in UEFI-BIOS.

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• Drive reporting incorrect free space

  - by Oli

  So I swapped my shiny SATA SSD for an even shinier PCI-E SSD. I run my core OS on the SSD because it's silly-fast. I did this on my old SSD so I created a new EXT4 partition and then just dded the data across (sorry I don't know the exact command I ran anymore) and after reinstalling grub, I booted onto the PCI-E SSD. At first glance everything had worked perfectly and things were running faster than ever. But then I noticed the free disk space on the new, larger drive: it was almost exactly the same as it was on the other disk... A disk that was half its size. So it looks as if I've copied the files across incorrectly and it's copied some of the filesystem metadata along with it. Tools like du and Disk Usage Analyzer come back with the correct figures. Things that look at the partition (and not the files) seem to think the drive is 120GB I've been using this drive for a week now so it's way out of sync with the old SSD so dumping the data and starting again isn't a job that fills me with joy but two questions: Is there a way to fix my filesystem so it knows what it's really on about? fsck e2fsck and badblocks all seem to be able to scan it without finding a problem with it. If I do plug my old SSD back in, copy the data off my PCI-E on to it and then copy it back onto a fresh filesystem (eg juggle the data around), what's the best way of doing that? I obviously want to keep all the permissions and softlinks where they are.

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• RAID--0 " TWO " DRIVES SSD ONLY Should I use on-board / Software RAID OR a RAID Card / Control

  - by Wes

  I am looking at going with a TWO Drive Only SSD RAID-0 Configuration And was wondering if I would get better performance / Speed from the Use of a RAID Controller / Card Verses just using the Software RAID on my Mother Board. I have herd conflicting reports , Again I only Plan on Running " 2 " SSD Drives in RAID-0 Config I have No- problem spending the extra money for a good controller but only if I am going to benifit performance wise , Otherwise if there is no notable Gain I will just use the Software RAID that my HP-180-T came with Intel- 3.33 GHZ , 6-Core , 12-GB of DDR-3. I have a huge External drive for All Storage and am not concerned about Data loss just looking for pure speed. And if a Controller will benifit my performance Wht type of card would one suggest?

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• Could hybrid SSD + HDD be made with fixed internal partitions?

  - by Aaron

  I was pretty close to getting Seagate's Momentus XT but have been scared off by the many problems reported on forums and feedback sites, especially in Mac Book Pros. So I'm waiting for mk 2 with some extra flash and better reliablilty I'm assuming will come out this year. What would suit me better though is a 32+500 hybrid drive where I have more control over what is on the flash drive and what is on the disk drive. So there are 2 physical partitions within the one 2.5" hard drive enclosure which use different media internally (32GB for core files and 500GB for data and multimedia). The partitions would be locked so they can't be changed. - Or even better, the disk driver just makes them appear as two disks to the OS that share the same bus... Perhaps it's ok if the bios just sees the first drive until the OS is loaded. Is either of it technically possible? Obviously difficult to market outside of the enthusiast market. The SSD memory modules can be pretty small right, so they could even make them a card that plugs into a secondary connection on the enclosure. That would be good for computer builders as well as for upgrading and recoverability. Then future operating systems could recognise these system SSD drives and automatically install the OS + swap files on it. While placing document libraries on the larger data drive. While in the longer term HDD will probably disapear there will always be a trade off between speed, storage size and expense.

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