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  • Execute a SSIS package in Sync or Async mode from SQL Server 2012

    - by Davide Mauri
    Today I had to schedule a package stored in the shiny new SSIS Catalog store that can be enabled with SQL Server 2012. (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh479588(v=SQL.110).aspx) Once your packages are stored here, they will be executed using the new stored procedures created for this purpose. This is the script that will get executed if you try to execute your packages right from management studio or through a SQL Server Agent job, will be similar to the following: Declare @execution_id bigint EXEC [SSISDB].[catalog].[create_execution] @package_name='my_package.dtsx', @execution_id=@execution_id OUTPUT, @folder_name=N'BI', @project_name=N'DWH', @use32bitruntime=False, @reference_id=Null Select @execution_id DECLARE @var0 smallint = 1 EXEC [SSISDB].[catalog].[set_execution_parameter_value] @execution_id,  @object_type=50, @parameter_name=N'LOGGING_LEVEL', @parameter_value=@var0 DECLARE @var1 bit = 0 EXEC [SSISDB].[catalog].[set_execution_parameter_value] @execution_id,  @object_type=50, @parameter_name=N'DUMP_ON_ERROR', @parameter_value=@var1 EXEC [SSISDB].[catalog].[start_execution] @execution_id GO The problem here is that the procedure will simply start the execution of the package and will return as soon as the package as been started…thus giving you the opportunity to execute packages asynchrously from your T-SQL code. This is just *great*, but what happens if I what to execute a package and WAIT for it to finish (and thus having a synchronous execution of it)? You have to be sure that you add the “SYNCHRONIZED” parameter to the package execution. Before the start_execution procedure: exec [SSISDB].[catalog].[set_execution_parameter_value] @execution_id,  @object_type=50, @parameter_name=N'SYNCHRONIZED', @parameter_value=1 And that’s it . PS From the RC0, the SYNCHRONIZED parameter is automatically added each time you schedule a package execution through the SQL Server Agent. If you’re using an external scheduler, just keep this post in mind .

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  • Rotate sphere in Javascript / three.js while moving on x/z axes

    - by kaipr
    I have a sphere/ball in three.js which I want to "roll" arround on a x/z axis. For the z axe I could simply do this no matter what the current x and y rotation is: sphere.roll_z = function(distance) { sphere.position.z += distance; sphere.rotation.x += distance > 0 ? 0.05 : -0.05; } But how can I roll it along the x axe? And how could I properly do the roll_z? I've found a lot about quateration and matrixes, but I can't figure out how to use them properly to achieve my (rather simple) goal. I'm aware that I have to update multiple rotations and that I have to calculate how far to rotate the sphere to match the distance, but the "how" is the question. It's probably just lack of mathematical skills which I should train, but a working example/short explanation would help alot to start with.

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  • How can a large, Fortran-based number crunching codebase be modernized?

    - by Dave Mateer
    A friend in academia asked me for advice (I'm a C# business application developer). He has a legacy codebase which he wrote in Fortran in the medical imaging field. It does a huge amount of number crunching using vectors. He uses a cluster (30ish cores) and has now gone towards a single workstation with 500ish GPUS in it. However where to go next with the codebase so: Other people can maintain it over next 10 year cycle Get faster at tweaking the software Can run on different infrastructures without recompiles After some research from me (this is a super interesting area) some options are: Use Python and CUDA from Nvidia Rewrite in a functional language. For example, F# or Haskell Go cloud based and use something like Hadoop and Java Learn C What has been your experience with this? What should my friend be looking at to modernize his codebase? UPDATE: Thanks @Mark and everyone who has answered. The reasons my friend is asking this question is that it's a perfect time in the projects lifecycle to do a review. Bringing research assistants up to speed in Fortran takes time (I like C#, and especially the tooling and can't imagine going back to older languages!!) I liked the suggestion of keeping the pure number crunching in Fortran, but wrapping it in something newer. Perhaps Python as that seems to be getting a stronghold in academia as a general-purpose programming language that is fairly easy to pick up. See Medical Imaging and a guy who has written a Fortran wrapper for CUDA, Can I legally publish my Fortran 90 wrappers to Nvidias' CUFFT library (from the CUDA SDK)?.

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  • Basic tutorial/introduction for 3d matrices, idealy in c++, without openGl or directX

    - by René Nyffenegger
    I am wondering if there is a simple tutorial that covers the basics of how to initialize rotation, translation and projection matrices, and how to multiply them, and how to get the screen coordinates afterwards for a 3d point. Idealy, the tutorial comes with compilable code and is not dependent on any 3rd party library. Searching the internet, I found lots of tutorials, so this is not the problem. Yet, it seemed all of these either covered openGl or directX, or they were theoretical in nature.

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  • Why does multiplying texture coordinates scale the texture?

    - by manning18
    I'm having trouble visualizing this geometrically - why is it that multiplying the U,V coordinates of a texture coordinate has the effect of scaling that texture by that factor? eg if you scaled the texture coordinates by a factor of 3 ..then doesn't this mean that if you had texture coordinates 0,1 and 0,2 ...you'd be sampling 0,3 and 0,6 in the U,V texture space of 0..1? How does that make it bigger eg HLSL: tex2D(textureSampler, TexCoords*3) Integers make it smaller, decimals make it bigger I mean I understand intuitively if you added to the U,V coordinates, as that is simply an offset into the sampling range, but what's the case with multiplication? I have a feeling when someone explains this to me I'm going to be feeling mighty stupid

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  • Inverting matrix then decomposing gives different quaternion than decomposing then inverting the quat

    - by Fraser
    I'm getting different signs when I convert a matrix to quaternion and invert that, versus when I invert a matrix and then get the quaternion from it: Quaternion a = Quaternion.Invert(getRotation(m)); Quaternion b = getRotation(Matrix.Invert(m)); I would expect a and b to be identical (or inverses of each other). However, it looks like q1 = (x, y, -z, -w) while q2 = (-x, -y, w, z). In other words, the Z and W components have been switched for some reason. Note: getRotation() decomposes the transform matrix and returns just the rotation part of it (I've tried normalizing the result; it does nothing). The matrix m is a complete transform matrix and contains a translation (and possibly a scale) as well as a rotation. I'm using D3DXMatrixDecompose to do the actual decomposition.

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  • Matrix multiplication - Scene Graphs

    - by bgarate
    I wrote a MatrixStack class in C# to use in a SceneGraph. So, to get the world matrix for an object I am suposed to use: WorldMatrix = ParentWorld * LocalTransform But, in fact, it only works as expected when I do the other way: WorldMatrix = LocalTransform * ParentWorld Mi code is: public class MatrixStack { Stack<Matrix> stack = new Stack<Matrix>(); Matrix result = Matrix.Identity; public void PushMatrix(Matrix matrix) { stack.Push(matrix); result = matrix * result; } public Matrix PopMatrix() { result = Matrix.Invert(stack.Peek()) * result; return stack.Pop(); } public Matrix Result { get { return result; } } public void Clear() { stack.Clear(); result = Matrix.Identity; } } Why it works this way and not the other? Thanks!

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  • Missing z-axis rotation for transforming between two vectors

    - by Steve Baughman
    I'm trying to rotate a cube so that it's facing up, but am getting hung up on the final implementation details. It now reliably will rotate the x,y axis to the correct side, but the z-axis is never rotating (See photos of before and after rotation). When I'm using the code below I always get '0' for my rotationVector.z. What am I missing here? // Define lookAt vector lookAtVector = GLKVector3Make(0,0,1); // Define axes vectors axes[0] = GLKVector3Make(0,0,1); axes[1] = GLKVector3Make(-1,0,0); axes[2] = GLKVector3Make(0,1,0); axes[3] = GLKVector3Make(1,0,0); axes[4] = GLKVector3Make(0,-1,0); axes[5] = GLKVector3Make(0,0,-1); CGFloat highest_dot = -1.0; GLKVector3 closest_axis; for(int i = 0; i < 6; i++) { // multiply cube's axes by existing matrix GLKVector3 axis = GLKMatrix4MultiplyVector3(matrix, axes[i]); CGFloat dot = GLKVector3DotProduct(axis, lookAtVector); if(dot > highest_dot) { closest_axis = axis; highest_dot = dot; } } GLKVector3 rotationVector = GLKVector3CrossProduct(closest_axis, lookAtVector); // Get angle between vectors CGFloat angle = atan2(GLKVector3Length(rotationVector), GLKVector3DotProduct(closest_axis, lookAtVector)); // normalize the rotation vector rotationVector = GLKVector3Normalize(rotationVector); // Create transform CATransform3D rotationTransform = CATransform3DMakeRotation(angle, rotationVector.x, rotationVector.y, rotationVector.z); // add rotation transform to existing transformation baseTransform = CATransform3DConcat(baseTransform, rotationTransform); return baseTransform; Before 3d Rotation After 3d Rotation Implementation based on this post

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  • Rotate around the centre of the screen

    - by Dan Scott
    I want my camera to rotate around the centre of screen and I'm not sure how to achieve that. I have a rotation in the camera but I'm not sure what its rotating around. (I think it might be rotating around the position.X of camera, not sure) If you look at these two images: http://imgur.com/E9qoAM7,5qzyhGD#0 http://imgur.com/E9qoAM7,5qzyhGD#1 The first one shows how the camera is normally, and the second shows how I want the level to look when I would rotate the camera 90 degrees left or right. My camera: public class Camera { private Matrix transform; public Matrix Transform { get { return transform; } } private Vector2 position; public Vector2 Position { get { return position; } set { position = value; } } private float rotation; public float Rotation { get { return rotation; } set { rotation = value; } } private Viewport viewPort; public Camera(Viewport newView) { viewPort = newView; } public void Update(Player player) { position.X = player.PlayerPos.X + (player.PlayerRect.Width / 2) - viewPort.Width / 4; if (position.X < 0) position.X = 0; transform = Matrix.CreateTranslation(new Vector3(-position, 0)) * Matrix.CreateRotationZ(Rotation); if (Keyboard.GetState().IsKeyDown(Keys.D)) { rotation += 0.01f; } if (Keyboard.GetState().IsKeyDown(Keys.A)) { rotation -= 0.01f; } } } (I'm assuming you would need to rotate around the centre of the screen to achieve this)

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  • Skype Silent Mode

    - by jack
    So Skype has a silent mode: e.g. it won't alert you in any way about incoming calls/messages. I'd like to use that mode while working to keep Skype from distracting me. I'd rather not quit the program or signoff during that time. Is there a simple way to put Skype in that mode? There's an option for it in their SDK but not in the software. There are third party apps that do it (among other things), but there doesn't seem to be a simple solution for this. Help please!

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  • Logarithmic spacing of FFT bins

    - by Mykel Stone
    I'm trying to do the examples within the GameDev.net Beat Detection article ( http://archive.gamedev.net/archive/reference/programming/features/beatdetection/index.html ) I have no issue with performing a FFT and getting the frequency data and doing most of the article. I'm running into trouble though in the section 2.B, Enhancements and beat decision factors. in this section the author gives 3 equations numbered R10-R12 to be used to determine how many bins go into each subband: R10 - Linear increase of the width of the subband with its index R11 - We can choose for example the width of the first subband R12 - The sum of all the widths must not exceed 1024 He says the following in the article: "Once you have equations (R11) and (R12) it is fairly easy to extract 'a' and 'b', and thus to find the law of the 'wi'. This calculus of 'a' and 'b' must be made manually and 'a' and 'b' defined as constants in the source; indeed they do not vary during the song." However, I cannot seem to understand how these values are calculated...I'm probably missing something simple, but learning fourier analysis in a couple of weeks has left me Decimated-in-Mind and I cannot seem to see it.

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  • Stunning DIY Aluminum and Walnut Case Mode Is a Work of Art

    - by Jason Fitzpatrick
    Many of the case mods we come across are intricate and packed with custom lighting and other geeky flourished. This case made take an opposite approach, combining aluminum and walnut to create a sleek and stunning living-room friendly HTPC case. Over in the Bit-Tech case modding forums, user Gtek shares his stunning case mod. Inside the block of aluminum and walnut you see here is a mini-ATC board, power supply, dual hard drives, and an optical drive. A single photo can’t do it justice so we highly recommend hitting up the link below to check out his sketches, build photos, and, of course, the gorgeous photos of the completed case–including the hidden peripheral panel and slot-loading drive. Tenuis – A DIY HTPC Case [via Apartment Therapy] 8 Deadly Commands You Should Never Run on Linux 14 Special Google Searches That Show Instant Answers How To Create a Customized Windows 7 Installation Disc With Integrated Updates

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  • Running MySQL in Batch Mode

    Anyone who has spent a fair amount of time working with databases comes to realize that common tasks like backups and data transfers should be run from a script rather than interactively. In this tutorial, we will be writing a common batch file to back up a table to a file.

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  • Large sparse (stiff) ODE system needed for testing

    - by macydanim
    I hope this is the right place for this question. I have been working on a sparse stiff implicit ODE solver and have finished the code so far. I now tested the solver with the Van der Pol equation, and another stiff problem, which is of dimension 4. But to perform better tests I am searching for a bigger system. I'm thinking of the order N = 100...1000, if possible stiff and sparse. Does anybody have an example I could use? I really don't know where to search.

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  • Typical Applications of Linear System Solver in Game Developemnt

    - by craftsman.don
    I am going to write a custom solver for linear system. I would like to survey the typical problems involved the linear system solving in games. So that I can custom optimization on these problems based on the shape of the matrix. currently I am focus on these problems: B-Spline editing (I use a linear solve to resolve the C0, C1, C2 continuity) Constraint in Simulation (especially Position-Constraint, cloth) Both of them are Banded Matrix. I want to hear about some other applications of a linear system in games. Thank you.

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  • What are the maths behind 'Raiden 2' purple laser?

    - by Aybe
    The path of the laser is affected by user input and enemies present on the screen. Here is a video, at 5:00 minutes the laser in question is shown : Raiden II (PS) - 1 Loop Clear - Part 2 UPDATE Here is a test using Inkscape, ship is at bottom, the first 4 enemies are targeted by the plasma. There seems to be a sort of pattern. I moved the ship first, then the handle from it to form a 45° angle, then while trying to fit the curve I found a pattern of parallel handles and continued so until I reached the last enemy. Update, 5/26/2012 : I started an XNA project using beziers, there is still some work needed, will update the question next week. Stay tuned ! Update : 5/30/2012 : It really seems that they are using Bézier curves, I think I will be able to replicate/imitate a plasma of such grade. There are two new topics I discovered since last time : Arc length, Runge's phenomenon, first one should help in having a linear movement possible over a Bézier curve, second should help in optimizing the number of vertices. Next time I will put a video so you can see the progress 8-)

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  • Languages/Methods to Learn for Scientific Computing?:

    - by Zéychin
    I'm a second-semester Junior working towards a Computer Science degree with a Scientific Computing concentration and a Mathematics degree with a concentration on Applied Discrete Mathematics. So, number crunching and such rather than a bunch of regular expressions, interface design, and networking. I've found that I'm not learning new relevant languages from my coursework and am interested in what the community would recommend me to learn. I know as far as programming methods go, I need to learn more about parallelizing programs, but if there's anything else you can recommend, I would appreciate it. Here's a list of the languages with which I am very experienced (web technologies omitted as they barely apply here). Any recommendations for additional languages I should learn would be very much appreciated!: Java C C++ Fortran77/90/95 Haskell Python MATLAB

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  • Are there any formalized/mathematical theories of software testing?

    - by Erik Allik
    Googling "software testing theory" only seems to give theories in the soft sense of the word; I have not been able to find anything that would classify as a theory in the mathematical, information theoretical or some other scientific field's sense. What I'm looking for is something that formalizes what testing is, the notions used, what a test case is, the feasibility of testing something, the practicality of testing something, the extent to which something should be tested, formal definition/explanation of code coverage, etc. UPDATE: Also, I'm not sure, intuitively, about the connection between formal verification and what I asked, but there's clearly some sort of connection.

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  • How can I make sense of the word "Functor" from a semantic standpoint?

    - by guillaume31
    When facing new programming jargon words, I first try to reason about them from an semantic and etymological standpoint when possible (that is, when they aren't obscure acronyms). For instance, you can get the beginning of a hint of what things like Polymorphism or even Monad are about with the help of a little Greek/Latin. At the very least, once you've learned the concept, the word itself appears to go along with it well. I guess that's part of why we name things names, to make mental representations and associations more fluent. I found Functor to be a tougher nut to crack. Not so much the C++ meaning -- an object that acts (-or) as a function (funct-), but the various functional meanings (in ML, Haskell) definitely left me puzzled. From the (mathematics) Functor Wikipedia article, it seems the word was borrowed from linguistics. I think I get what a "function word" or "functor" means in that context - a word that "makes function" as opposed to a word that "makes sense". But I can't really relate that to the notion of Functor in category theory, let alone functional programming. I imagined a Functor to be something that creates functions, or behaves like a function, or short for "functional constructor", but none of those seems to fit... How do experienced functional programmers reason about this ? Do they just need any label to put in front of a concept and be fine with it ? Generally speaking, isn't it partly why advanced functional programming is hard to grasp for mere mortals compared to, say, OO -- very abstract in that you can't relate it to anything familiar ? Note that I don't need a definition of Functor, only an explanation that would allow me to relate it to something more tangible, if there is any.

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  • Determining explosion radius damage - Circle to Rectangle 2D

    - by Paul Renton
    One of the Cocos2D games I am working on has circular explosion effects. These explosion effects need to deal a percentage of their set maximum damage to all game characters (represented by rectangular bounding boxes as the objects in question are tanks) within the explosion radius. So this boils down to circle to rectangle collision and how far away the circle's radius is from the closest rectangle edge. I took a stab at figuring this out last night, but I believe there may be a better way. In particular, I don't know the best way to determine what percentage of damage to apply based on the distance calculated. Note : All tank objects have an anchor point of (0,0) so position is according to bottom left corner of bounding box. Explosion point is the center point of the circular explosion. TankObject * tank = (TankObject*) gameSprite; float distanceFromExplosionCenter; // IMPORTANT :: All GameCharacter have an assumed (0,0) anchor if (explosionPoint.x < tank.position.x) { // Explosion to WEST of tank if (explosionPoint.y <= tank.position.y) { //Explosion SOUTHWEST distanceFromExplosionCenter = ccpDistance(explosionPoint, tank.position); } else if (explosionPoint.y >= (tank.position.y + tank.contentSize.height)) { // Explosion NORTHWEST distanceFromExplosionCenter = ccpDistance(explosionPoint, ccp(tank.position.x, tank.position.y + tank.contentSize.height)); } else { // Exp center's y is between bottom and top corner of rect distanceFromExplosionCenter = tank.position.x - explosionPoint.x; } // end if } else if (explosionPoint.x > (tank.position.x + tank.contentSize.width)) { // Explosion to EAST of tank if (explosionPoint.y <= tank.position.y) { //Explosion SOUTHEAST distanceFromExplosionCenter = ccpDistance(explosionPoint, ccp(tank.position.x + tank.contentSize.width, tank.position.y)); } else if (explosionPoint.y >= (tank.position.y + tank.contentSize.height)) { // Explosion NORTHEAST distanceFromExplosionCenter = ccpDistance(explosionPoint, ccp(tank.position.x + tank.contentSize.width, tank.position.y + tank.contentSize.height)); } else { // Exp center's y is between bottom and top corner of rect distanceFromExplosionCenter = explosionPoint.x - (tank.position.x + tank.contentSize.width); } // end if } else { // Tank is either north or south and is inbetween left and right corner of rect if (explosionPoint.y < tank.position.y) { // Explosion is South distanceFromExplosionCenter = tank.position.y - explosionPoint.y; } else { // Explosion is North distanceFromExplosionCenter = explosionPoint.y - (tank.position.y + tank.contentSize.height); } // end if } // end outer if if (distanceFromExplosionCenter < explosionRadius) { /* Collision :: Smaller distance larger the damage */ int damageToApply; if (self.directHit) { damageToApply = self.explosionMaxDamage + self.directHitBonusDamage; [tank takeDamageAndAdjustHealthBar:damageToApply]; CCLOG(@"Explsoion-> DIRECT HIT with total damage %d", damageToApply); } else { // TODO adjust this... turning out negative for some reason... damageToApply = (1 - (distanceFromExplosionCenter/explosionRadius) * explosionMaxDamage); [tank takeDamageAndAdjustHealthBar:damageToApply]; CCLOG(@"Explosion-> Non direct hit collision with tank"); CCLOG(@"Damage to apply is %d", damageToApply); } // end if } else { CCLOG(@"Explosion-> Explosion distance is larger than explosion radius"); } // end if } // end if Questions: 1) Can this circle to rect collision algorithm be done better? Do I have too many checks? 2) How to calculate the percentage based damage? My current method generates negative numbers occasionally and I don't understand why (Maybe I need more sleep!). But, in my if statement, I ask if distance < explosion radius. When control goes through, distance/radius must be < 1 right? So 1 - that intermediate calculation should not be negative. Appreciate any help/advice!

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  • Physics timestep questions

    - by SSL
    I've got a projectile working perfectly using the code below: //initialised in loading screen 60 is the FPS - projectilEposition and velocity are Vector3 types gravity = new Vector3(0, -(float)9.81 / 60, 0); //called every frame projectilePosition += projectileVelocity; This seems to work fine but I've noticed in various projectile examples I've seen that the elapsedtime per update is taken into account. What's the difference between the two and how can I convert the above to take into account the elapsedtime? (I'm using XNA - do I use ElapsedTime.TotalSeconds or TotalMilliseconds)? Edit: Forgot to add my attempt at using elapsedtime, which seemed to break the physics: projectileVelocity.Y += -(float)((9.81 * gameTime.ElapsedGameTime.TotalSeconds * gameTime.ElapsedGameTime.TotalSeconds) * 0.5f); Thanks for the help

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  • building a game for different resoulution phones

    - by Jason
    Hi, I am starting some tests for building a game on the android program. So far everything is working and seems nice. However I do not understand how to make sure my game looks correct on all phones as the all will have slightly different screen ratios (and even very different on some odd phones) What I am doing right now is making a view frustrum ( could also be ortho ) which I set to go from -ratio to +ratio ( as I have seen on many examples) however this causes my test shape to be stretched and sometimes cut off by the edge of the screen. I am tilting my phone to landscape to do my tests ( a bit extreame) but it should still render correctly if I have dome things right. Should I be scaling by some ratio before drawing or something? An example would be greatly apriciated PS I am doing a 2d game

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  • Gödel, Escher, Bach - Gödel's string

    - by Brad Urani
    In the book Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid by Douglas Hofstadter, the author gives us a representation of the precursor to Gödel's string (Gödel's string's uncle) as: ~Ea,a': (I don't have the book in front of me but I think that's right). All that remains to get Gödel's string is to plug the Gödel number for this string into the free variable a''. What I don't understand is how to get the Gödel number for the functions PROOF-PAIR and ARITHMOQUINE. I understand how to write these functions in a programming language like FlooP (from the book) and could even write them myself in C# or Java, but the scheme that Hofstadter defines for Gödel numbering only applies to TNT (which is just his own syntax for natural number theory) and I don't see any way to write a procedure in TNT since it doesn't have any loops, variable assignments etc. Am I missing the point? Perhaps Gödel's string is not something that can actually be printed, but rather a theoretical string that need not actually be defined? I thought it would be neat to write a computer program that actually prints Gödel's string, or Gödel's string encoded by Gödel numbering (yes, I realize it would have a gazillion digits) but it seems like doing so requires some kind of procedural language and a Gödel numbering system for that procedural language that isn't included in the book. Of course once you had that, you could write a program that plugs random numbers into variable "a" and run procedure PROOF-PAIR on it to test for theoromhood of Gödel's string. If you let it run for a trillion years you might find a derivation that proves Gödel's string.

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  • Update Manager offers 900+ updates under partial upgrade mode

    - by TriforceLZG
    Today I checked for updates and got an error message telling me I must do a partial upgrade. I was shocked to see how many updates there were available. 900+ Updates! By using synaptic I found out that it wanted to remove core packages from my system, such as compiz and python, but also update some as well. I am very confused why package manager would want to do this all of a sudden, and why it wants to destroy my system. I really need an answer, because I now cannot update my system.

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  • What is "2LUN" mode in connection with RAID?

    - by naxa
    I've came across RAID products that also list JBOD (just a bunch of disks) mode and 2LUN mode. What the heck is 2LUN mode? I could not find a description; the closest thing seems to be LUN 'logical unit number' but I don't get the 2LUN thing. UPDATE 1 This is what Wikipedia has to say about JBOD: JBOD (derived from "just a bunch of disks"): an architecture involving multiple hard drives, while making them accessible either as independent hard drives, or as a combined (spanned) single logical volume with no actual RAID functionality. So JBOD can actually mean two different (albeit related) things. Answer of Guest says 2LUN means no spanning. Does this suggest that 2LUN would simply mean the JBOD-variant with no span?

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