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How to describe the profession [closed]

- by Michael Kjörling

Possible Duplicates: How to explain programming to a non-programmer? Getting non-programmers to understand the development process I was asked a question today that made me think. Here's a middle age person who apparently knows nothing about computers besides this specific application they use (I actually suggested to use Calculator, rather than hunt around the whole office for a hand-held one which had mysteriously vanished, and the fact that the computer could be used for such tasks was apparently news), asking me to explain what programming is about. In general. I tried, but am not sure I managed very well. But it got me thinking. What would be a good way to describe programming, or more generally speaking systems development, to a person like that? How have you responded being put in a similar situation?

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Why are people using C instead of C++? [closed]

- by Darth

Possible Duplicate: When to use C over C++, and C++ over C? Many times I've stumbled upon people saying that C++ is not always better than C. Great example here would be the Linux kernel, where they simply decided to use C instead of C++ because it had better compilers at the time. But that's many years ago and a lot has changed. So the question is, why are people still using C over C++? I gues there are probably some cases (like embedded devices), where there simply isn't a good C++ compiler, or am I wrong here? What are the other cases when it is better to go with C instead of C++?

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Project Euler 13: (Iron)Python

- by Ben Griswold

In my attempt to learn (Iron)Python out in the open, here’s my solution for Project Euler Problem 13. As always, any feedback is welcome. # Euler 13 # http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&id=13 # Work out the first ten digits of the sum of the # following one-hundred 50-digit numbers. import time start = time.time() number_string = '\ 37107287533902102798797998220837590246510135740250\ 46376937677490009712648124896970078050417018260538\ 74324986199524741059474233309513058123726617309629\ 91942213363574161572522430563301811072406154908250\ 23067588207539346171171980310421047513778063246676\ 89261670696623633820136378418383684178734361726757\ 28112879812849979408065481931592621691275889832738\ 44274228917432520321923589422876796487670272189318\ 47451445736001306439091167216856844588711603153276\ 70386486105843025439939619828917593665686757934951\ 62176457141856560629502157223196586755079324193331\ 64906352462741904929101432445813822663347944758178\ 92575867718337217661963751590579239728245598838407\ 58203565325359399008402633568948830189458628227828\ 80181199384826282014278194139940567587151170094390\ 35398664372827112653829987240784473053190104293586\ 86515506006295864861532075273371959191420517255829\ 71693888707715466499115593487603532921714970056938\ 54370070576826684624621495650076471787294438377604\ 53282654108756828443191190634694037855217779295145\ 36123272525000296071075082563815656710885258350721\ 45876576172410976447339110607218265236877223636045\ 17423706905851860660448207621209813287860733969412\ 81142660418086830619328460811191061556940512689692\ 51934325451728388641918047049293215058642563049483\ 62467221648435076201727918039944693004732956340691\ 15732444386908125794514089057706229429197107928209\ 55037687525678773091862540744969844508330393682126\ 18336384825330154686196124348767681297534375946515\ 80386287592878490201521685554828717201219257766954\ 78182833757993103614740356856449095527097864797581\ 16726320100436897842553539920931837441497806860984\ 48403098129077791799088218795327364475675590848030\ 87086987551392711854517078544161852424320693150332\ 59959406895756536782107074926966537676326235447210\ 69793950679652694742597709739166693763042633987085\ 41052684708299085211399427365734116182760315001271\ 65378607361501080857009149939512557028198746004375\ 35829035317434717326932123578154982629742552737307\ 94953759765105305946966067683156574377167401875275\ 88902802571733229619176668713819931811048770190271\ 25267680276078003013678680992525463401061632866526\ 36270218540497705585629946580636237993140746255962\ 24074486908231174977792365466257246923322810917141\ 91430288197103288597806669760892938638285025333403\ 34413065578016127815921815005561868836468420090470\ 23053081172816430487623791969842487255036638784583\ 11487696932154902810424020138335124462181441773470\ 63783299490636259666498587618221225225512486764533\ 67720186971698544312419572409913959008952310058822\ 95548255300263520781532296796249481641953868218774\ 76085327132285723110424803456124867697064507995236\ 37774242535411291684276865538926205024910326572967\ 23701913275725675285653248258265463092207058596522\ 29798860272258331913126375147341994889534765745501\ 18495701454879288984856827726077713721403798879715\ 38298203783031473527721580348144513491373226651381\ 34829543829199918180278916522431027392251122869539\ 40957953066405232632538044100059654939159879593635\ 29746152185502371307642255121183693803580388584903\ 41698116222072977186158236678424689157993532961922\ 62467957194401269043877107275048102390895523597457\ 23189706772547915061505504953922979530901129967519\ 86188088225875314529584099251203829009407770775672\ 11306739708304724483816533873502340845647058077308\ 82959174767140363198008187129011875491310547126581\ 97623331044818386269515456334926366572897563400500\ 42846280183517070527831839425882145521227251250327\ 55121603546981200581762165212827652751691296897789\ 32238195734329339946437501907836945765883352399886\ 75506164965184775180738168837861091527357929701337\ 62177842752192623401942399639168044983993173312731\ 32924185707147349566916674687634660915035914677504\ 99518671430235219628894890102423325116913619626622\ 73267460800591547471830798392868535206946944540724\ 76841822524674417161514036427982273348055556214818\ 97142617910342598647204516893989422179826088076852\ 87783646182799346313767754307809363333018982642090\ 10848802521674670883215120185883543223812876952786\ 71329612474782464538636993009049310363619763878039\ 62184073572399794223406235393808339651327408011116\ 66627891981488087797941876876144230030984490851411\ 60661826293682836764744779239180335110989069790714\ 85786944089552990653640447425576083659976645795096\ 66024396409905389607120198219976047599490197230297\ 64913982680032973156037120041377903785566085089252\ 16730939319872750275468906903707539413042652315011\ 94809377245048795150954100921645863754710598436791\ 78639167021187492431995700641917969777599028300699\ 15368713711936614952811305876380278410754449733078\ 40789923115535562561142322423255033685442488917353\ 44889911501440648020369068063960672322193204149535\ 41503128880339536053299340368006977710650566631954\ 81234880673210146739058568557934581403627822703280\ 82616570773948327592232845941706525094512325230608\ 22918802058777319719839450180888072429661980811197\ 77158542502016545090413245809786882778948721859617\ 72107838435069186155435662884062257473692284509516\ 20849603980134001723930671666823555245252804609722\ 53503534226472524250874054075591789781264330331690' total = 0 for i in xrange(0, 100 * 50 - 1, 50): total += int(number_string[i:i+49]) print str(total)[:10] print "Elapsed Time:", (time.time() - start) * 1000, "millisecs" a=raw_input('Press return to continue')

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Project Euler 7: (Iron)Python

- by Ben Griswold

In my attempt to learn (Iron)Python out in the open, here’s my solution for Project Euler Problem 7. As always, any feedback is welcome. # Euler 7 # http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&id=7 # By listing the first six prime numbers: 2, 3, 5, 7, # 11, and 13, we can see that the 6th prime is 13. What # is the 10001st prime number? import time start = time.time() def nthPrime(nth): primes = [2] number = 3 while len(primes) < nth: isPrime = True for prime in primes: if number % prime == 0: isPrime = False break if (prime * prime > number): break if isPrime: primes.append(number) number += 2 return primes[nth - 1] print nthPrime(10001) print "Elapsed Time:", (time.time() - start) * 1000, "millisecs" a=raw_input('Press return to continue')

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Mail Scanning System

- by Mr D

In the same way gmail can generate ads based on email content, I am looking for a way to develop a system which can: Allow users to connect their email address to our site It then would continously monitor all incomming emails From the incomming emails there would be a critera(e.g. a certain address or subject) if any of the emails matched the critea it would would be saved to a database Then once a new email had been found the users would receive an email notification will tells them to log back into the site to see it. My questions are: Would this be possible? What would be a good language to use(generally I like php, python and java) Are there any frameworks which would help do this? How would I connect the users email account to allow access to their emails(do I need a mail server?) Any advice? Thank you! If you need more information please let me know.

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Project Euler 6: (Iron)Python

- by Ben Griswold

In my attempt to learn (Iron)Python out in the open, here’s my solution for Project Euler Problem 6. As always, any feedback is welcome. # Euler 6 # http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&id=6 # Find the difference between the sum of the squares of # the first one hundred natural numbers and the square # of the sum. import time start = time.time() square_of_sums = sum(range(1,101)) ** 2 sum_of_squares = reduce(lambda agg, i: agg+i**2, range(1,101)) print square_of_sums - sum_of_squares print "Elapsed Time:", (time.time() - start) * 1000, "millisecs" a=raw_input('Press return to continue')

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Infix vs Prefix Notation - Which do you prefer?

- by Jetti

I have been learning Clojure and looking at Scheme and CL which introduced me to the world of prefix notation. At first I didn't like it but it is still starting to grow on me. To be honest though, there are still long calculations that are difficult for me to understand but I think that is an issue of me needing more exposure/practice and I'll get it. But that leads me to the question: Which type of notation do you prefer and why?

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Getting in to smart card programming

- by Scott Chamberlain

I have a Compaq nw8440 with a smart card reader that is: Compatible with ISO 7816 compliant Smart Cards. PC/SC interface support I have been interested in smart cards and wanted to start playing around with them. If I wanted to get in to programming smart cards where can I find resources on how to do it, and would I need any additional hardware other than what my laptop provides (besides the cards to program)?

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How does a "Variables introduce state"?

- by kunj2aan

I was reading the "C++ Coding Standards" and this line was there: Variables introduce state, and you should have to deal with as little state as possible, with lifetimes as short as possible. Doesn't anything that mutates eventually manipulate state? What does "you should have to deal with little state as possible" mean? In an impure language such as C++, isn't state management really what you are doing? And what are other ways to "deal with as little state as possible" other than limiting variable lifetime?

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How to execute a Ruby file in Java, capable of calling functions from the Java program and receiving primitive-type results?

- by Omega

I do not fully understand what am I asking (lol!), well, in the sense of if it is even possible, that is. If it isn't, sorry. Suppose I have a Java program. It has a Main and a JavaCalculator class. JavaCalculator has some basic functions like public int sum(int a,int b) { return a + b } Now suppose I have a ruby file. Called MyProgram.rb. MyProgram.rb may contain anything you could expect from a ruby program. Let us assume it contains the following: class RubyMain def initialize print "The sum of 5 with 3 is #{sum(5,3)}" end def sum(a,b) # <---------- Something will happen here end end rubyMain = RubyMain.new Good. Now then, you might already suspect what I want to do: I want to run my Java program I want it to execute the Ruby file MyProgram.rb When the Ruby program executes, it will create an instance of JavaCalculator, execute the sum function it has, get the value, and then print it. The ruby file has been executed successfully. The Java program closes. Note: The "create an instance of JavaCalculator" is not entirely necessary. I would be satisfied with just running a sum function from, say, the Main class. My question: is such possible? Can I run a Java program which internally executes a Ruby file which is capable of commanding the Java program to do certain things and get results? In the above example, the Ruby file asks the Java program to do a sum for it and give the result. This may sound ridiculous. I am new in this kind of thing (if it is possible, that is). WHY AM I ASKING THIS? I have a Java program, which is some kind of game engine. However, my target audience is a bunch of Ruby coders. I don't want to have them learn Java at all. So I figured that perhaps the Java program could simply offer the functionality (capacity to create windows, display sprites, play sounds...) and then, my audience can simply code with Ruby the logic, which basically justs asks my Java engine to do things like displaying sprites or playing sounds. That's when I though about asking this.

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What to use C++ for?

- by futlib

I really love C++. However, I'm struggling to find good uses for it lately. It is still the language to use if you're building huge systems with huge performance requirements. Like backend/infrastructure code at Google and Facebook, or high-end games. But I don't get to do stuff like that. It's also a good choice for code that runs close to the hardware. I'd like to do more low-level stuff, but it isn't part of my job, and I can't think of useful private projects that would involve that. Traditionally, C++ was also a good choice for rich client applications, but those are mostly written in C# and Obj-C lately - and aren't really that important anymore, with everything being a web app. Or a mobile app, which are mostly written in Obj-C and Java. And of course, web-based desktop and mobile apps are quite prominent, too. At my job, I work mostly on web applications, using Java, JavaScript and Groovy. Java is a good/popular choice for non-Google-scale backends, Groovy (or Python, or Ruby or Node.js) is pretty good for the server-side of web apps and JavaScript is the only real choice for the client-side. Even the little games I'm writing in my spare time are lately mostly written in JavaScript, so they can run in the browser. So what would you suggest I could use C++ for? I'm aware that this question is very similar. However, I don't want to learn C++, I was a professional C++ programmer for years. I want to keep doing it and find good new use cases for it. I know that I can use C++ for web apps/games. I could even compile C++ to JavaScript with Emscripten. However, it doesn't seem like a good idea. I'm looking for something C++ is really good at to stay competent in the language. If your answer is: Just give up and forget C++, you'll probably never need it again, so be it.

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cloud programming for OpenStack in C / C++

- by Basile Starynkevitch

(Sorry for such a fuzzy question, I am very newbie to cloud programming) I am interested in designing (and developing) a (free software) program in C or C++ (probably, most of it being meta-programmed, i.e. part of the C code code being generated). I am still in the thinking / designing phase. And I might perhaps give up. For reference, I am the main architect and implementor of GCC MELT, a domain specific language to extend the GCC compiler (the MELT language is translated to C/C++ and is bootstrapped: the MELT to C/C++ translator being written in MELT). And I am dreaming of extending it with some cloud computing abilities. But I am a newbie in cloud computing. (I am only interested in free-software, GPLv3 friendly, based cloud computing, which probably means openstack). I believe that "compiling on the cloud with some enhanced GCC" could make sense (for super-optimizations or static analysis of e.g. an entire Linux distribution, or at least a massive GCC compiled free software like Qt, GCC itself, or the Linux kernel). I'm dreaming of a MELT specific monitoring program which would store, communicate, and and enhance GCC compilation (extended by MELT). So the picture would be that each GCC process (actually the cc1 or cc1plus started by the gcc driver, suitably extended by some MELT extension) would communicate with some monitor. That "monitoring/persisting" program would run "on the cloud" (and probably manage some information produced by GCC e.g. on NoSQL bases). So, how should some (yet to be written) C program (some Linux daemon) be designed to be cloud-friendly? So far, I understood that it should provide some Web service, probably thru a RESTful service, so should use an HTTP server library like onion. And that OpenStack is able to start (e.g. a dozen of) such services. But I don't have a clear picture of what OpenStack brings. So far, I noticed the ability to manage (and distribute) virtual machines (with some Python API). It is less clear how can it distribute some ELF executable, how can it start it, etc. Do you have any references or examples of C / C++ programming on the cloud? How should a "cloud-friendly" (actually, OpenStack friendly) C/C++ server application be designed?

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Is ActionScript 3 used by Serious Indie Developers?

- by Puedes

This question is for dedicated independent game developers: My dream is to be a game developer. I am a senior in high school who has taken Computer Science for all four years. I have used Java the whole time, but last year I started using PHP and ActionScript 3 (with Flixel). I also used Game Maker for a brief period. I apologize for this, I wanted to get that out of the way and clarify the fact that I have experience of some kind with game development. I am stuck at the moment because I don't quite know what language to use to develop games at a professional level. I am seriously interested in becoming a dedicated game developer, but this issue is really bothering me. I would like to know what the best option would be for my case, based on your experiences. Any advice is appreciated. Things to consider: I am only interested in making 2D games (I am not worried about 3D support) It would be ideal to use something that can be ported to multiple platforms (so as not to run into this problem later) I can't seem to figure out what the industry likes to use So far, this is what I have: I can't decide if it would be wise to stick with ActionScript 3, or move to C++ I know Flash would be for browser games, but what if I want to make a downloadable game, like Plants Vs. Zombies or Super Crate Box? Would Flash be a smart choice for standalone games, or did they use something else? Thank you for reading this, as I would like to stop worrying about this and make some games! Also, I hope this wasn't all over the place :) tl;dr Should I move ahead with AS3 or use something else i.e. C++

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Should code comments have scope?

- by Rig Veda

I am asking this because I have seen places where, whoever coded initially had provided proper comments, but later on modifications were made to the code but the comments were left untouched. I remember reading somewhere " Don't get suckered in by the comments, debug only code". So is it a good/ relevant/ practical idea that tells the scope of the comments so as to prompt the developer for editing the comment. Your thoughts.

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undefined control sequence in a NOWEB document

- by Jean Baldraque

I'm writing a TeX-noweb document. I compile it with noweave -tex -filter "elide comment:*" texcode.nw > documentation.tex but when I try to compile the resulting file with xetex -halt-on-error documentation.tex I obtain the following error message ! Undefined control sequence. <argument> ...on}\endmoddef \nwstartdeflinemarkup \nwenddeflinemarkup It seems that \nwenddeflinemarkup is not recognized. If i delete from the document all the sequences \nwstartdeflinemarkup\nwenddeflinemarkup the document compile without exceptions. What can be the problem?

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Go/Obj-C style interfaces with ability to extend compiled objects after initial release

- by Skrylar

I have a conceptual model for an object system which involves combining Go/Obj-C interfaces/protocols with being able to add virtual methods from any unit, not just the one which defines a class. The idea of this is to allow Ruby-ish open classes so you can take a minimalist approach to library development, and attach on small pieces of functionality as is actually needed by the whole program. Implementation of this involves a table of methods marked virtual in an RTTI table, which system functions are allowed to add to during module initialization. Upon typecasting an object to an interface, a Go-style lookup is done to create a vtable for that particular mapping and pass it off so you can have comparable performance to C/C++. In this case, methods may be added /afterwards/ which were not previously known and these new methods allow newer interfaces to be satisfied; while I like this idea because it seems like it would be very flexible (disregarding the potential for spaghetti code, which can happen with just about any model you use regardless). By wrapping the system calls for binding methods up in a set of clean C-compatible calls, one would also be able to integrate code with shared libraries and retain a decent amount of performance (Go does not do shared linking, and Objective-C does a dynamic lookup on each call.) Is there a valid use-case for this model that would make it worth the extra background plumbing? As much as this Dylan-style extensibility would be nice to have access to, I can't quite bring myself to a use case that would justify the overhead other than "it could make some kinds of code more extensible in future scenarios."

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Project Euler 1: (Iron)Python

- by Ben Griswold

In my attempt to learn (Iron)Python out in the open, here’s my solution for Project Euler Problem 1. As always, any feedback is welcome. # Euler 1 # http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&id=1 # If we list all the natural numbers below 10 that are # multiples of 3 or 5, we get 3, 5, 6 and 9. The sum of # these multiples is 23. Find the sum of all the multiples # of 3 or 5 below 1000. import time start = time.time() print sum([x for x in range(1000) if x % 3== 0 or x % 5== 0]) print "Elapsed Time:", (time.time() - start) * 1000, "millisecs" a=raw_input('Press return to continue') # Also cool def constraint(x): return x % 3 == 0 or x % 5 == 0 print sum(filter(constraint, range(1000)))

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Compilable modern alternatives to C/C++

- by Jeremy French

I am considering writing a new software product. Performance will be critical, so I am wary of using an interpreted or language or one that uses a emulation layer (read java). Which leads me to thinking of using C (or C++) however these are both rather long in the tooth. I haven't used either for a long time. I figure in the last 20 years someone should have created something which is reasonably popular and is nice to code in and is complied. What more modern alternatives are there to C for writing high performance code compiled code? edit in response to comments If C++ is a different beast than it was 15 years ago, I would consider it, I guess I had an assumption that it had some inherent problems. Parallelisation would be important, but probably not across multiple machines.

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Trying not to get ahead of myself but it is hard!

- by Andrew

Well I made a 5 year plan for myself (11years-16years) I am pretty good at Java, HTML, and PHP. I have already done some end projects: Small Java Platform Game A Small Polynomial Solver A Small Image Sharing Site A Chess Website: chesslounge.net I am currently doing some Android Development and so far I have made a program that Vibrates, Blinks the Light, or Creates a custom status message based on the user input. And a program that rotates a pyramid with a texture. My question is: Should I stick to what I am doing or Learn something a little new? I am itching to do C++, but what is your advice?

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Different ways of solving problems in code.

- by Erin

I now program in C# for a living but before that I programmed in python for 5 years. I have found that I write C# very differently than most examples I see on the web. Rather then writing things like: foreach (string bar in foo) { //bar has something doen to it here } I write code that looks like this. foo.ForEach( c => c.someActionhere() ) Or var result = foo.Select( c => { //Some code here to transform the item. }).ToList(); I think my using code like above came from my love of map and reduce in python - while not exactly the same thing, the concepts are close. Now it's time for my question. What concepts do you take and move with you from language to language; that allow you to solve a problem in a way that is not the normal accepted solution in that language?

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Expanding existing DVCS Wiki

- by A Lion

A portion of my job is to maintain technical documentation for a rapidly expanding manufacturing company. Because it is only a portion of my job and the company's product line is expanding so quickly, I can't stay on top of the documentation. As a result, I've been yearning for an information management system with a handful of specific features. I've found many products that have a subset, but none that have all the features I'm looking for. I'm at the point of picking an existing product and expanding it to cover my desired feature set, however, this will be a pet project and I will be learning the underlying language as I go. So, the main question is which existing product will be the easiest to expand to cover the full feature set and has a relatively easy to learn language? Alternatively, have I missed another existing program that will cover the feature set or should be in my list of "close, but not quite there"? Feature Set web interface based on a distributed version control system (e.g., git) easy to edit by logged in novices (e.g. wiki, multimarkdown) outputs in more traditional formats (e.g., doc, odt, pdf) edits held in queue until editor/engineer/manager approves them (e.g., MS Word editing) [this is the really big elephant in list - suggestions on where to start appreciated] edits held in queue specifically for engineer approval [extra limb of the elephant in the list] well-supported in the open source community Closest, but not quite there ikiwiki - http://ikiwiki.info (php) lots of awesome functionality and extensions, including easy to edit and based on DVCS lacks a review/forward for review queue appears to be well-supported within the OSS community gitit - http://gitit.net/ (haskell) easy to edit and based on DVCS lots of outputs in traditional formats a great web-based gui diff interface lacks a review/forward for review queue appears to be primarily maintained by one individual

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Class as first-class object

- by mrpyo

Could a class be a first-class object? If yes, how would the implementation look? I mean, how could syntax for dynamically creating new classes look like? EDIT: I mean what example syntax could look like (I'm sorry, English is not my native language), but still I believe this question makes sense - how you give this functionality while keeping language consistent. For example how you create reference for new type. Do you make reference first-class object too and then use something like this: Reference<newType> r = new Reference<newType>(); r.set(value); Well this could get messy so you may just force user to use Object type references for dynamically created classes, but then you loose type-checking. I think creating concise syntax for this is interesting problem which solving could lead to better language design, maybe language which is metalanguage for itself (I wonder if this is possible).

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Does my JavaScript look big in this?

- by benhowdle89

As programmers, you have certain curtains to hide behind with your code. With PHP all of your code is server side preprocessed, so this never see's the light of day as far as the user is concerned. If you have maybe rushed through some code for a deadline, as long as it functions correctly then the user never needs to know how many expletives you've inserted into the comments. However with more and more applications being written for the web, with a desktop feel implemented by AJAX and popular frameworks like jQuery being banded around to every Tom, Dick and Harry, how can a programmer maintain some dignity and hide his/her JavaScript code without it being flaunted like dirty laundry when the users hit Right Click-View Source or Inspect Element. Are there any ways to hide JavaScript application logic/code?

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Project Euler 3: (Iron)Python

- by Ben Griswold

In my attempt to learn (Iron)Python out in the open, here’s my solution for Project Euler Problem 3. As always, any feedback is welcome. # Euler 3 # http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&id=3 # The prime factors of 13195 are 5, 7, 13 and 29. # What is the largest prime factor of the number # 600851475143? import time start = time.time() def largest_prime_factor(n): max = n divisor = 2 while (n >= divisor ** 2): if n % divisor == 0: max, n = n, n / divisor else: divisor += 1 return max print largest_prime_factor(600851475143) print "Elapsed Time:", (time.time() - start) * 1000, "millisecs" a=raw_input('Press return to continue')

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Project Euler 20: (Iron)Python

- by Ben Griswold

In my attempt to learn (Iron)Python out in the open, here’s my solution for Project Euler Problem 20. As always, any feedback is welcome. # Euler 20 # http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=problems&id=20 # n! means n x (n - 1) x ... x 3 x 2 x 1 # Find the sum of digits in 100! import time start = time.time() def factorial(n): if n == 0: return 1 else: return n * factorial(n-1) print sum([int(i) for i in str(factorial(100))]) print "Elapsed Time:", (time.time() - start) * 1000, "millisecs" a=raw_input('Press return to continue')

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