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• TDD vs. Productivity

  - by Nairou

  In my current project (a game, in C++), I decided that I would use Test Driven Development 100% during development. In terms of code quality, this has been great. My code has never been so well designed or so bug-free. I don't cringe when viewing code I wrote a year ago at the start of the project, and I have gained a much better sense for how to structure things, not only to be more easily testable, but to be simpler to implement and use. However... it has been a year since I started the project. Granted, I can only work on it in my spare time, but TDD is still slowing me down considerably compared to what I'm used to. I read that the slower development speed gets better over time, and I definitely do think up tests a lot more easily than I used to, but I've been at it for a year now and I'm still working at a snail's pace. Each time I think about the next step that needs work, I have to stop every time and think about how I would write a test for it, to allow me to write the actual code. I'll sometimes get stuck for hours, knowing exactly what code I want to write, but not knowing how to break it down finely enough to fully cover it with tests. Other times, I'll quickly think up a dozen tests, and spend an hour writing tests to cover a tiny piece of real code that would have otherwise taken a few minutes to write. Or, after finishing the 50th test to cover a particular entity in the game and all aspects of it's creation and usage, I look at my to-do list and see the next entity to be coded, and cringe in horror at the thought of writing another 50 similar tests to get it implemented. It's gotten to the point that, looking over the progress of the last year, I'm considering abandoning TDD for the sake of "getting the damn project finished". However, giving up the code quality that came with it is not something I'm looking forward to. I'm afraid that if I stop writing tests, then I'll slip out of the habit of making the code so modular and testable. Am I perhaps doing something wrong to still be so slow at this? Are there alternatives that speed up productivity without completely losing the benefits? TAD? Less test coverage? How do other people survive TDD without killing all productivity and motivation?

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• What are graphs in laymen's terms

  - by Justin984

  What are graphs, in computer science, and what are they used for? In laymen's terms preferably. I have read the definition on Wikipedia: In computer science, a graph is an abstract data type that is meant to implement the graph and hypergraph concepts from mathematics. A graph data structure consists of a finite (and possibly mutable) set of ordered pairs, called edges or arcs, of certain entities called nodes or vertices. As in mathematics, an edge (x,y) is said to point or go from x to y. The nodes may be part of the graph structure, or may be external entities represented by integer indices or references. but I'm looking for a less formal, easier to understand definition.

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• How does the GPL static vs. dynamic linking rule apply to interpreted languages?

  - by ekolis

  In my understanding, the GPL prohibits static linking from non-GPL code to GPL code, but permits dynamic linking from non-GPL code to GPL code. So which is it when the code in question is not linked at all because the code is written in an interpreted language (e.g. Perl)? It would seem to be too easy to exploit the rule if it was considered dynamic linking, but on the other hand, it would also seem to be impossible to legally reference GPL code from non-GPL code if it was considered static! Compiled languages at least have a distinction between static and dynamic linking, but when all "linking" is just running scripts, it's impossible to tell what the intent is without an explicit license! Or is my understanding of this issue incorrect, rendering the question moot? I've also heard of a "classpath exception" which involves dynamic linking; is that not part of the GPL but instead something that can be added on to it, so dynamic linking is only allowed when the license includes this exception?

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• .NET Properties - Use Private Set or ReadOnly Property?

  - by tgxiii

  In what situation should I use a Private Set on a property versus making it a ReadOnly property? Take into consideration the two very simplistic examples below. First example: Public Class Person Private _name As String Public Property Name As String Get Return _name End Get Private Set(ByVal value As String) _name = value End Set End Property Public Sub WorkOnName() Dim txtInfo As TextInfo = _ Threading.Thread.CurrentThread.CurrentCulture.TextInfo Me.Name = txtInfo.ToTitleCase(Me.Name) End Sub End Class // ---------- public class Person { private string _name; public string Name { get { return _name; } private set { _name = value; } } public void WorkOnName() { TextInfo txtInfo = System.Threading.Thread.CurrentThread.CurrentCulture.TextInfo; this.Name = txtInfo.ToTitleCase(this.Name); } } Second example: Public Class AnotherPerson Private _name As String Public ReadOnly Property Name As String Get Return _name End Get End Property Public Sub WorkOnName() Dim txtInfo As TextInfo = _ Threading.Thread.CurrentThread.CurrentCulture.TextInfo _name = txtInfo.ToTitleCase(_name) End Sub End Class // --------------- public class AnotherPerson { private string _name; public string Name { get { return _name; } } public void WorkOnName() { TextInfo txtInfo = System.Threading.Thread.CurrentThread.CurrentCulture.TextInfo; _name = txtInfo.ToTitleCase(_name); } } They both yield the same results. Is this a situation where there's no right and wrong, and it's just a matter of preference?

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• Should I add parameters to instance methods that use those instance fields as parameters?

  - by john smith optional

  I have an instance method that uses instance fields in its work. I can leave the method without that parameters as they're available to me, or I can add them to the parameter list, thus making my method more "generic" and not reliable on the class. On the other hand, additional parameters will be in parameters list. Which approach is preferable and why? Edit: at the moment I don't know if my method will be public or private. Edit2: clarification: both method and fields are instance level.

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• How do I encrypt the source code on the webserver?

  - by Ashin k n

  I have a web application developed using Python, HTML, CSS & JavaScript. The customer installs it in any of their own Machine and uses it through their LAN. In short the customer sets up the webserver in any of their own machine. Since its a web application, all the source code is open for the customer in the document root directory of webserver. I want to encrypt the whole source code in the document root directory in such a way that it should not effect the working of the web application. Is there is any way to encrypt the Python, HTML, CSS & JavaScript for this purpose.

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• JSP Include: one large bean or bean for each include

  - by shylynx

  I want to refactor a webapp that consists of very distorted JSPs and servlets. Because we can't switch to a web framework easily we have to keep JSPs and Servlets, and now we are in doubt how to include pages into another and how to setup the use:bean-directives effectively. At the first step we want to decouple the code for the core-actions and the bean-creation into servlets. The servlets should forward to their corresponding pages, which should use the bean. The problem here is, that each jsp consists of different sub- and sub-sub-jsp that are included into another. Here is a shortend extract (because reality is more complex): head header top navigation actionspanel main header actionspanel foot footer Moreover each jsp (also the header and footer) use dynamic data. For example title and actionspanel can change on each page-reload or do have links and labels that depend on the processing by the preceding servlet. I know that jsp-include-directives should only be used for static content und should be avoided for dynamic content. But here we have very large pages, that consist of many parts. Now the core questions: Should I use one big bean for each page, so that each bean holds also data for header and footer beside its core data, so that each subsequent included jsp uses the same bean-directive? For example: DirectoryJSP <- DirectoryBean CompareJSP <- CompareBean Or should I use one bean for each jsp, so that each bean only holds the data for one jsp and its own purpose. For example: DirectoryJSP <- DirectoryBean HeaderJSP <- HeaderBean FooterJSP <- FooterBean CompareJSP <- CompareBean HeaderJSP <- HeaderBean FooterJSP <- FooterBean In the second case: should the subsequent beans be a member of the corresponding parent bean, so that only the parent bean is attached as attribute to the request? Or should each bean attached to the request?

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• Is this kind of Design by Contract useless?

  - by Charlie Pigarelli

  I've just started informatics university and I'm attending a programming course about C(++). The programming professor prefers to teach very few things (in 3 month we have just reached the functions topic) and connect every topic with a type of programming design that somehow is similar to the Design by Contract design. Basically what he ask us to do is to write every exercise with comments Pre-conditions, Post-conditions and Invariants that should prove the correctness of each program we write. But this doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, ok: maybe writing down your thoughts prevent you from doing some mistakes, but if this is all an abstract thing, then if your program intuition is wrong you'll write your program wrong and then you'll also write pre and post conditions wrong probably auto convincing your self about its correctness. Most of the time, both me and other students have written programs that seemed ok and that had correct pre and post condition too. But at the moment of testing it was just completely wrong. I had some experience before this course of programming and I had written a lot of line of code before and I found myself comfortably with just writing a program and unit test it. It take less time to accomplish and is less "abstract" than just thinking about what every single piece of your program should do in every case (which is kinda like mentally testing it). Finally, all this pre and post conditions takes me like 80% of the total time of the exercise. It's harder to think about putting down this pre and post correct than to write the program itself. Since we are like the only course of the only university probably in the entire world that makes this things, could someone please tell me how should I manage this thing? Am I right thinking that this doesn't worth anything? Should I change university? (there are like double of the people attending that course and it seems that usually very few people passes the exam the first year). Should I convince myself it's method is right?

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• Is it bad practice for services to share a database in SOA?

  - by Paul T Davies

  I have recently been reading Hohpe and Woolf's Enterprise Integration Patterns, some of Thomas Erl's books on SOA and watching various videos and podcasts by Udi Dahan et al. on CQRS and Event Driven systems. Systems in my place of work suffer from high coupling. Although each system theoretically has its own database, there is a lot of joining between them. In practice this means there is one huge database that all systems use. For example, there is one table of customer data. Much of what I've read seems to suggest denormalising data so that each system uses only its database, and any updates to one system are propagated to all the others using messaging. I thought this was one of the ways of enforcing the boundaries in SOA - each service should have its own database, but then I read this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4019902/soa-joining-data-across-multiple-services and it suggests this is the wrong thing to do. Segregating the databases does seem like a good way of decoupling systems, but now I'm a bit confused. Is this a good route to take? Is it ever recommended that you should segregate a database on, say an SOA service, an DDD Bounded context, an application, etc?

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• C# Role Provider for multiple applications

  - by Juventus18

  I'm making a custom RoleProvider that I would like to use across multiple applications in the same application pool. For the administration of roles (create new role, add users to role, etc..) I would like to create a master application that I could login to and set the roles for each additional application. So for example, I might have AppA and AppB in my organization, and I need to make an application called AppRoleManager that can set roles for AppA and AppB. I am having troubles implementing my custom RoleProvider because it uses an initialize method that gets the application name from the config file, but I need the application name to be a variable (i.e. "AppA" or "AppB") and passed as a parameter. I thought about just implementing the required methods, and then also having additional methods that pass application name as a parameter, but that seems clunky. i.e. public override CreateRole(string roleName) { //uses the ApplicationName property of this, which is set in web.config //creates role in db } public CreateRole(string ApplicationName, string roleName) { //creates role in db with specified params. } Also, I would prefer if people were prevented from calling CreateRole(string roleName) because the current instance of the class might have a different applicationName value than intended (what should i do here? throw NotImplementedException?). I tried just writing the class without inheriting RoleProvider. But it is required by the framework. Any general ideas on how to structure this project? I was thinking make a wrapper class that uses the role provider, and explicitly sets the application name before (and after) and calls to the provider something like this: static class RoleProviderWrapper { public static CreateRole(string pApplicationName, string pRoleName) { Roles.Provider.ApplicationName = pApplicationName; Roles.Provider.CreateRole(pRoleName); Roles.Provider.ApplicationName = "Generic"; } } is this my best-bet?

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• Personal knowledge base [closed]

  - by AlexLocust

  Possible Duplicate: How do you manage your knowledge base? Hello. Now I am using easy writing pad for scratches while doing some researches, solving troubles or doing workarounds. But.. you now, it's really difficult to remember all details of founded solution and it's alternatives after few months. And writing pad is not wery useful. Usually writing pad doesn't contains half of needed inforation: links founded in internet, output of some test commands and etc. Now I'am looking for a tool for storing information about my researches and it's results. Basic reqirements: ability to store files; ability to store formatted text (kind of HTML will be nice) with hyperlinks and code snippets; tags on notes; easy to use. Now I'am thinking about some kind of file-system organized storage, but I think it will be inconvenient. Another thinks is local wiki or blog. So, my question is: How do you organize you knowlege base? What tools do you use, and what "pros and cons".

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• How do you do ASP.Net performance testing?

  - by John

  Our team is in need of a performance testing process. We use ASP.Net (both web forms and MVC) and performance testing is not currently built into our projects. We occasionally do some ad-hoc analysis, such as checking the load on the server or SQL Server Profiler, but we don't have a true beginning to end, built into the project performance testing methodology. Where is a good place to start? I'm interested in both: Process - General knowledge, including best practices. Essential list of tools. I'm aware of a few tools, such as what's built into the pricier versions of VS 2010 and JetBrains products, though I haven't used them.

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• Best way to relate code smells to a non technical audience?

  - by Ed Guiness

  I have been asked to present examples of code issues that were found during a code review. My audience is mostly non-technical and I want to try to express the issues in such a way that I convey the importance of "good code" versus "bad code". But as I review my presentation it seems to me I've glossed over the reasons why it is important to write good code. I've mentioned a number of reasons including ease of maintenance, increased likelihood of bugs, but with my "non tech" hat on they seem unconvincing. What is your advice for helping a non-technical audience relate to the importance of good code?

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• How do I mashup Google Maps with geolocated photos from one or more social networks?

  - by PureCognition

  I'm working on a proof of concept for a project, and I need to pin random photos to a Google Map. These photos can come from another social network, but need to be non-porn. I've done some research so far, Google's Image Search API is deprecated. So, one has to use the Custom Search API. A lot of the images aren't photos, and I'm not sure how well it handles geolocation yet. Twitter seems a little more well suited, except for the fact that people can post pictures of pretty much anything. I was also going to look into the API's for other networks such as Flickr, Picasa, Pinterest and Instagram. I know there are some aggregate services out there that might have done some of this mash-up work for me as well. If there is anyone out there that has a handle on social APIs and where I should look for this type of solution, I would really appreciate the help. Also, in cases where server-side implementation matters, I'm a .NET developer by experience.

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• What is the best practice for when to check if something needs to be done?

  - by changokun

  Let's say I have a function that does x. I pass it a variable, and if the variable is not null, it does some action. And I have an array of variables and I'm going to run this function on each one. Inside the function, it seems like a good practice is to check if the argument is null before proceeding. A null argument is not an error, it just causes an early return. I could loop through the array and pass each value to the function, and the function will work great. Is there any value to checking if the var is null and only calling the function if it is not null during the loop? This doubles up on the checking for null, but: Is there any gained value? Is there any gain on not calling a function? Any readability gain on the loop in the parent code? For the sake of my question, let's assume that checking for null will always be the case. I can see how checking for some object property might change over time, which makes the first check a bad idea. Pseudo code example: for(thing in array) { x(thing) } Versus: for(thing in array) { if(thing not null) x(thing) } If there are language-specific concerns, I'm a web developer working in PHP and JavaScript.

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• Versioning millions of files with distributed SCM

  - by C. Lawrence Wenham

  I'm looking into the feasibility of using off-the-shelf distributed SCMs such as Git or Mercurial to manage millions of XML files. Each file would be a commercial transaction, such as a purchase order, that would be updated perhaps 10 times during the lifecycle of the transaction until it is "done" and changes no more. And by "manage", I mean that the SCM would be used to not just version the files, but also to replicate them to other machines for redundancy and transfer of IP. Lets suppose, for the sake of example, that a goal is to provide good performance if it was handling the volume of orders that Amazon.com claimed to have at its peak in December 2010: about 150,000 orders per minute. We're expecting the system to be distributed over many servers in order to get reasonable performance. We're also planning to use solid-state drives exclusively. There is a reason why we don't want to use an RDBMS for primary storage, but it's a bit beyond the scope of this question. Does anyone have first-hand experience with the performance of distributed SCMs under such a load, and what strategies were used? Open-source preferred, since the final product is to be FOSS, too.

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• I want to sell my software [C# desktop application] but I was Stuck in licencing [closed]

  - by Surendra Soni

  Possible Duplicate: if I use .NET Framework for my application, do I have to pay anything to Microsoft? I have developed a desktop application called "Institute Management System" which has modules like Class manager, Subject manager, Topics manager, Student inquiry manager Student admission manager, Fees manager, Exam manager etc. using C# for the front end and MS Access for the back end. The main problem is that I want to sell it and earn some money but I heard that my application needs to be registered at Microsoft, and I would have to get a license from them for selling, and have to pay them money too. I have spent four months developing it at my own expense, and worked very hard to develop it. So I want some tips, advice, any suggestion for the same. Please also tell me the procedure for all of the required registrations and payment issues. And I also want to ask you if you Can you suggest any other technology where I develop my application and sell it without worrying about licencing and related issues? I am now more confused about that "MS technology is open source or not? "

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• Class Design and Structure Online Web Store

  - by Phorce

  I hope I have asked this in the right forum. Basically, we're designing an Online Store and I am designing the class structure for ordering a product and want some clarification on what I have so far: So a customer comes, selects their product, chooses the quantity and selects 'Purchase' (I am using the Facade Pattern - So subsystems execute when this action is performed). My class structure: < Order > < Product > <Customer > There is no inheritance, more Association < Order has < Product , < Customer has < Order . Does this structure look ok? I've noticed that I don't handle the "Quantity" separately, I was just going to add this into the "Product" class, but, do you think it should be a class of it's own? Hope someone can help.

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• LSP vs OCP / Liskov Substitution VS Open Close

  - by Kolyunya

  I am trying to understand the SOLID principles of OOP and I've come to the conclusion that LSP and OCP have some similarities (if not to say more). the open/closed principle states "software entities (classes, modules, functions, etc.) should be open for extension, but closed for modification". LSP in simple words states that any instance of Foo can be replaced with any instance of Bar which is derived from Foo and the program will work the same very way. I'm not a pro OOP programmer, but it seems to me that LSP is only possible if Bar, derived from Foo does not change anything in it but only extends it. That means that in particular program LSP is true only when OCP is true and OCP is true only if LSP is true. That means that they are equal. Correct me if I'm wrong. I really want to understand these ideas. Great thanks for an answer.

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• How do bug reports factor in to a sprint?

  - by Mark Ingram

  I've been reading up on Scrum recently. From my understanding, a meeting is held before the sprint starts, to decide what gets moved from the product backlog to the upcoming sprint backlog. Once a feature is completed in the current sprint, it will go into the "Ready to QA" bucket, and it's at this point that I'm getting confused. Do bug reports go back into the product backlog? I assume they can't go back into the sprint backlog as we've already decided what work will be done for this cycle? What happens when QA finds a bug? Where does it go?

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• Configure Jenkins and Tomcat using Puppet on Vagrant

  - by ex3v

  I'm playing with setting up my first Spring + jenkins + Tomcat CI dev environment. For now it's just a test/fun phase, but in the near future I'll be starting new project with my coworkers. That's the reason that I want development environment virtualized and exactly te same on every development machine, as well as on production server. I choosen to use Vagrant and to try to write puppet scripts that not only install everything, but also configure everything so each of us will have the same jenkins plugins, same jenkins and tomcat login and password, and literally after calling vagrant up we are ready to work. What I managed to do so far is installation of stuff needed and port forwarding. My vagrantfile looks like this (comments stripped): VAGRANTFILE_API_VERSION = "2" Vagrant.configure(VAGRANTFILE_API_VERSION) do |config| config.vm.box = "precise32" config.vm.box_url = "http://files.vagrantup.com/precise32.box" config.vm.network :forwarded_port, guest: 80, host: 8090 config.vm.network :forwarded_port, guest: 8080, host: 8091 config.vm.network :private_network, ip: "192.168.33.10" config.vm.provision :puppet do |puppet| puppet.manifests_path = "puppet/" puppet.manifest_file = "default.pp" puppet.options = ['--verbose'] end end And this is my puppet file: Exec { path => [ "/bin/", "/sbin/" , "/usr/bin/", "/usr/sbin/" ] } class system-update { exec { 'apt-get update': command => 'apt-get update', } $sysPackages = [ "build-essential" ] package { $sysPackages: ensure => "installed", require => Exec['apt-get update'], } } class tomcat { package { "tomcat": ensure => present, require => Class["system-update"], } service { "tomcat": ensure => "running", require => Package["tomcat"], } } class jenkins { package { "jenkins": ensure => present, require => Class["system-update"], } service { "jenkins": ensure => "running", require => Package["jenkins"], } } include system-update include tomcat include jenkins Now, when I hit vagrant provision and go to http://localhost:8091/ I can see jenkins running, so above script works good. Next step is configurating jenkins and tomcat by extending above puppet scripts. I'm pretty green when it comes to CI. After wandering around web I've found few tutorials about jenkins configuration (here's one of them). I really want to move configuration presented in this tutorial to puppet file, so when I spread my vagrantfile and puppet file between my coworkers, I will be sure that everyone has exactly te same setup. Unfortunately I'm also green about using puppet, I don't know how to do this. Any help will be apreciated.

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• embedding LEFT OUTER JOIN within INNER JOIN

  - by user3424954

  I am having some problems with one of the question's answered in the book "SQL FOR MERE MORTALS". Here is the problem statement Here is the Database Structure Here is the answer which I am unable to comprehend Here is an answer which looks perfect to me Now the problem with the first answer I am having is: We first use LEFT OUTER JOIN for recipe class and recipes. So it selects all recipe class rows but only matching recipes. Perfecty fine as the question is demanding. Lets call this result set R. Now in the next step when we use INNER JOIN to join RecipieIngridients, it should filter out the rows from R in which Recipie ID doesn't match with the Recipe Id in Recipie Ingredients and hence filtering out the related Recipe class and recipe description also(Since it filters out the entire row of R). So this contradicts with the problem which demands all recipieID and RecipieDescription to be displayed from Recipe_Classes Table in this very step only. How can it be correct. Or Am i Missing some concept.

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• Is NAN suitable for communicating that an invalid parameter was involved in a calculation?

  - by Arman

  I am currently working on a numerical processing system that will be deployed in a performance-critical environment. It takes inputs in the form of numerical arrays (these use the eigen library, but for the purpose of this question that's perhaps immaterial), and performs some range of numerical computations (matrix products, concatenations, etc.) to produce outputs. All arrays are allocated statically and their sizes are known at compile time. However, some of the inputs may be invalid. In these exceptional cases, we still want the code to be computed and we still want outputs not "polluted" by invalid values to be used. To give an example, let's take the following trivial example (this is pseudo-code): Matrix a = {1, 2, NAN, 4}; // this is the "input" matrix Scalar b = 2; Matrix output = b * a; // this results in {2, 4, NAN, 8} The idea here is that 2, 4 and 8 are usable values, but the NAN should signal to the receipient of the data that that entry was involved in an operation that involved an invalid value, and should be discarded (this will be detected via a std::isfinite(value) check before the value is used). Is this a sound way of communicating and propagating unusable values, given that performance is critical and heap allocation is not an option (and neither are other resource-consuming constructs such as boost::optional or pointers)? Are there better ways of doing this? At this point I'm quite happy with the current setup but I was hoping to get some fresh ideas or productive criticism of the current implementation.

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• What kind of code would Kent Beck avoid unit testing?

  - by tieTYT

  I've been watching a few of the Is TDD Dead? talks on youtube, and one of the things that surprised me is Kent Beck seems to acknowledge that there are just some kinds of programs that aren't worth unit testing. For example, right here DHH says that Kent Beck is ... very happy to say "Well, TDD doesn't fit in this case, I'm just going to bail" It's frustrating to me that Kent Beck seems to acknowledge this, but nobody asks him to elaborate on it or give concrete examples. I'd like to know the situations where Kent Beck thinks TDD is a bad fit. Nobody can read his mind or speak for him, but I'm hoping he's been transparent enough through his books/tweets/whatever for someone to be able to answer. I'm not necessarily going to take what he says as gospel, but it would be useful to know that the times I've tried TDD and it just felt impossible/useless are situations that he would have bailed on it himself. Or, if it turned out he would have tested that code it'd suggest to me that I was approaching the process very wrong. I also think it would be enlightening to understand why he would bail on such projects. My opinion on why this is not a duplicate of "When is it appropriate to not unit test?" After skimming those answers I'm not satisfied. For example, look at UncleBob's answer. He doesn't even acknowledge that such a situation exists. I really think there's value in understanding Kent Beck's position, not just a general, "What's your opinion?" type of question. After all, he's the father of TDD.

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• Aggregating Excel cell contents that match a label [migrated]

  - by Josh

  I'm sure this isn't a terribly difficult thing, but it's not the type of question that easily lends itself to internet searches. I've been assigned a project for work involving a complex spreadsheet. I've done the usual =SUM and other basic Excel formulas, and I've got enough coding background that I'm able to at least fudge my way through VBA, but I'm not certain how to proceed with one part of the task. Simple version: On Sheet 1 I have a list of people (one on each row, person's name in column A), on sheet 2 I have a list of groups (one on each row, group name in column A). Each name in Sheet 1 has its own row, and I have a "Data Validation" dropdown menu where you choose the group each person belongs to. That dropdown is sourced from Sheet 2, where each group has a row. So essentially the data validation source for Sheet 1's "Group" column is just "=Sheet2!$a1:a100" or whatever. The problem is this: I want each group row in Sheet 2 to have a formula which results in a list of all the users which have been assigned to that group on Sheet 1. What I mean is something the equivalent of "select * from PeopleTab where GROUP = ThisGroup". The resulting cell would just stick the names together like "Bob Smith, Joe Jones, Sally Sanderson" I've been Googling for hours but I can't think of a way to phrase my search query to get the results I want. Here's an example of desired result (Dash-delimited. Can't find a way to make it look nice, table tags don't seem to work here): (Sheet 1) Bob Smith - Group 1 (selected from dropdown) Joe Jones - Group 2 (selected from dropdown) Sally Sanderson - Group 1 (selected from dropdown) (Sheet 2) Group 1 - Bob Smith, Sally Sanderson (result of formula) Group 2 - Joe Jones (result of formula) What formula (or even what function) do I use on that second column of sheet 2 to make a flat list out of the members of that group?

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